الحسن بن محمد بن علان

My cousin Ali ibn Musa Al-Ridha (s) has come here from Hijaz. He likes theology and theologians. Thus it would not be any trouble if you came to hold adebate with him on the 8th of Dhul-Hajja (the Day of Tarwiyah) to have a debate with him.”Soleiman said, “O Commander of the Faithful! I dislike questioning him in your session and amongst a group of the Hashemites. The people will regard him as incapable when he debates with me on theology. Incapabilities are not permissible for him.”Al-Ma’mun said, “I have invited you because I know that you are learned (in theology). I have no intentions except for you to silence him in an argument.” Soleiman said, “O Commander of the Faithful! I will do it for you. Just bring us together. Just sit back and watch.”Then Al-Ma’mun sent someone after Al-Ridha (s) and said, “A man from Marwaz who is not equal to you in theology has come and asked for you to come to us. Come here if you do not mind.” The Imam (s) made ablutions and told us to go ahead. Imran As-Sa’ebee was with us. We went until we arrived at Al-Ma’mun’s court. Yasir and Khalid took my hands and led me in. When I got in and greeted (Al-Ma’mun), he asked, “Where is my brother Abul Hassan whom may the Sublime God maintain?” I said, “When we were coming he was putting on his clothes. He ordered us to go ahead.” Then I added, “O Commander of the Faithful! Your servant Imran is also with me. He is right outside.” He said, “Who is Imran?” I said, “He is the Sabian who became a Muslim because of you.” He said, “Let him in.” Then Imran came in. Al-Ma’mun welcomed him and then told him, “O Imran! You did not die and join the Hashemites!” Imran said, “O Commander of the Faithful! Praise be to God who honored me by you.” Al-Ma’mun said, “O Imran! This is Soleiman al-Marwazi who is the theologian from Khorasan.” Imran said, “O Commander of the Faithful! He thinks that he is the only one in Khorasan versed in theoretical principles and refutes origination (bida’). Al-Ma’mun said, “Why don’t you have a debate with him?” Imran said, “This depends on him.” Then Al-Ridha (s) came in and asked, “What were you discussing?” Imran said, “O son of the Prophet of God! This is Soleiman al-Marwazi.”Soleiman told Imran, “Will you be pleased with Abil Hassan (s) and what he says about origination. Imran said, “Yes, I will if he (s) presents arguments which I can present when I argue with other theologians like myself.”Al-Ma’mun said, “O Abul Hassan! What is your opinion regarding what they argue about?” The Imam (s) said, “O Soleiman! How could you not believe in origination while the Honorable the Exalted God said, ‘But does not man call to mind that We created him before out of nothing?’ And the Honorable the Exalted God said, ‘It is He Who begins (the process of) Creation; then repeats it…’ And says, ‘To Him is due the primal origin of the heavens and the earth…’ Moreover, the Honorable the Exalted God said, ‘He adds to Creation as He pleases…’ and says, ‘…He began the Creation of man with (nothing more than) clay.’ Also the Honorable the Exalted God says, ‘There are (yet) others, held in suspense for the command of God, whether He will punish them, or turn in mercy to them…’ And the Honorable the Exalted God says, ‘…Nor is a man long-lived granted length of days, nor is a part cut off from his life, but is in a Decree (ordained)…’ Soleiman asked, “Has anything been narrated to you on this issue from your forefather?” The Imam (s) said, “Yes. It has been narrated by my father on the authority of Abi Abdullah (s) who said, “The Honorable the Exalted God has two bodies of knowledge: a Treasured Knowledge, Hidden Knowledge which no one but Him is informed of. Origination is rooted in that knowledge. And He has a second knowledge which He has taught the angels and His Messengers which the knowledgeable Members of the Holy Household are also aware of.”Soleiman said, “I would like you to present this from the Book of the Honorable the Exalted God.” The Imam (s) said, “The Honorable the Exalted God said, ‘So turn away from them: not thine is the blame.’ At first God wanted to destroy them. But then the Sublime God changed His mind and said, ‘But teach (thy Message) for teaching benefits the Believers.’ Soleiman said, “May I be your ransom! Tell me more.” Then Al-Ridha (s) said, “My father (s) informed me on the authority of his forefathers (s), on the authority of God’s Prophet (s) that the Honorable the Exalted God revealed to one of His Prophets to let one of the Kings know that God will take away his life at such and such a time. The Prophet (s) went to see the King and told him that. Then the King pleaded to God while he was on his bed and fell off of it. He said, “O Lord! Postpone my demise until I see my son grow up to undertake my affairs.” Then the Honorablethe Exalted God revealed to that Prophet (s), “Go to that King and inform him that I have decided to postpone his death. I have added fifteen years to his life.”The Prophet (s) said, “O Lord! You well know that I have never lied.” Then the Honorable the Exalted God revealed to him, “You are just an agent. Announce this to him. God is never questioned about what He does.” Then the Imam (s) turned towards Soleiman and said, “I think you have the same opinion as the Jews in this regard.” Soleiman said, “From this I seek refuge in God.” The Imam (s) said, “The Jews say, ‘God’s hand is tied up...’ They mean that God is finished working and is sitting back and does not Create anything else. But the Honorable the Exalted God has given them the following answer, ‘…Be their hands tied up and be they accursed for the (blasphemy) they utter….’ I have also heard my father Musa ibn Ja’far (s) say the following when asked about Origination, ‘How could the people refute origination, and that God might procrastinate the affairs of some people for a decision regarding them?’”Soleiman asked, “Can you tell me for what has the following verse been revealed? ‘We have indeed revealed this (Message) in the Night of Power.’ The Imam (s) said, “O Soleiman! The Honorable the Exalted God will decide the destiny (of an individual) for one year including life or death, good or bad, and sustenance on the Night of Power. Whatever God destines on that night comes to be.” Soleiman said, “Now I understand. Please tell me more.”The Imam (s) said, “O Soleiman! Some of the affairs are up to the Honorable the Exalted God and what He wills. He can expedite what He wills and procrastinate what He wills. He can destroy what He wills. O Soleiman, Ali (s) said, “Knowledge is of two types: Knowledge which God has taught His angels and His Messengers - that which God has taught His angels and His Messengers will be done, and that which is hidden near Him and He has informed none of His creatures of it. It is by this knowledge which He expedites what He wills to expedite, procrastinates what He wills to procrastinate; destroys what He wills to destroy, and He stabilizes what He wills to stabilize.”Soleiman told Al-Ma’mun, “O Commander of the Faithful! From today on I will not refute Creation or deny it by God’s Will.” Al-Ma’mun said,“O Soleiman! Ask Abul Hassan whatever you wish. Just listen carefully and be fair.” Soleiman said, “O my Master! May I ask?” Al-Ridha (s) said, “Ask whatever you wish.”Soleiman said, “What is your view about someone who considers will to be a name - an attribute similar to ‘ living’, ‘hearing’, ‘seeing’, and ‘powerful’?”Al-Ridha (s) said, “You say that things were originated and became different because He so desired and willed. But you do not say that things were originated and became different because He is All-Hearing and All-Seeing. This is a proof that they (i.e. will and desire) are not similar to All-Hearing, All-Seeing, and All-Powerful.”Soleiman said, “He has always been willing.” The Imam answered him, “O Soleiman! Is His will something other than Him?”He replied, “Yes.” The Imam (s) said, “Then you have proved that there has always been something along with Him forever.” Soleiman said, “No, I have not.” Al-Ridha (s) said, “Is will originated?” Soleiman said, “No. It is not.” Then Al-Ma’mun shouted at him and said, “O Soleiman! Are you showing obstinacy and giving vague answers to such a person as him. You must be fair. Don’t you see that people of intellect are sitting around you?” Then Al-Ma’mun said, “O Abul Hassan! Continue your debate on theology with him since he is the theologian of Khorasan.”Then the Imam asked him, “O Soleiman! Is it (the will) originated? Whatever is not Eternal is certainly originated. And if it is not originated it is Eternal.”Soleiman said, “His (Allah’s) will is (part) of Him just as His Hearing, His Sight and His Knowledge are (parts) of Him.” Al-Ridha (s) said, “Did He will Himself?” Soleiman answered, “No.” The Imam (s) said, “Therefore, willing is not like the hearing and the seeing.” Soleiman said, “Surely, He willed Himself just as He heard Himself, saw Himself, and recognized Himself.”Al-Ridha (s) said, “What is the meaning of ‘He willed Himself’? Did He will to be a thing? Did He will to be All-Living, All-Hearing, All-Seeing or All-Powerful?”Soleiman said, “Yes.” Al-Ridha (s) said, “Did that occur through His will?” Soleiman answered, ‘Yes.’ Al-Ridha (s) said, “Then your statement, ‘Hewilled to be All-Living, All-Hearing, and All-Seeing,’ does not make any sense since they were not done through His Will.” Soleiman said, “Yes. That was through His Will.”Then Al-Ma’mun and the people around him burst into laughter. Al-Ridha (s) laughed too and said, “Do not be too hard on the theologian from Khorasan. O Soleiman! “Do you think that He (i.e. Allah, the Exalted) has altered from state to state and changed due to it? This is something by which the Honorable the Exalted God cannot be described.” Soleiman remained silent.Al-Ridha (s) said, “O Soleiman! May I ask you a question?”Soleiman said, “May I be your ransom! Ask.”The Imam (s) said, “Tell me about you and your companions: Do you debate with the people on theology according to what you understand and know or according to what you do not understand and do not know?” Soleiman said, “Yes! (We debate) according to what we understand and know.”Al-Ridha (s) said, “The thing which the people know is that the willing is different from the will. The willing exists before the will. The subject is before the object. This (statement) disproves your statement, ‘The willing and the willed are the same thing.’” Soleiman said, “May I be your ransom! This is not what the people know about and understand.” Al-Ridha (s) said, “I think that you have claimed to have the knowledge without having a true recognition of it and said, ’Willing is like hearing and seeing’ while this view is not based on knowledge or the intellect.” Soleiman could not answer.Then Al-Ridha (s) said, “O Soleiman! Does God have knowledge of all those who are in Paradise and the Fire?” Soleiman said, “Yes.”The Imam (s) said, “Will what the Sublime God knows would be created in the future, actually be created?” Soleiman answered, “Yes.”The Imam (s) said, “If it is done to the extent that nothing else remains, can God add more to them or will He stop doing so?”Soleiman said, “He will add to them.” The Imam (s) said, “Then based on what you have said, God adds to them what He did not know would be created.” Then he added, “May I be your ransom! There is no limit foradding.” The Imam (s) said, “Then in your opinion His Knowledge does not encompass what is therein (in Paradise), since He does not know the limit of that which will be in Paradise. If His Knowledge does not encompass what is therein, then He would not know what will be there before they existed. The Honorable the Exalted God is Exalted High above that!”Soleiman said, “When I said God does not know about them it was because they have no limit and the Honorable the Exalted God Himself has described them as eternal. Therefore we do not want to assume an end for them.”Al-Ridha (s) said, “God’s Knowledge of them will not limit them. There are many instances of which He has knowledge, then He adds to them and does not take away what He has added to them. These are supported by the Words of the Honorable the Exalted God in His Book, ‘…as often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for fresh skins, that they may taste the penalty…’ And He told the residents of Paradise, ‘…a gift without break.’ And the Honorable the Exalted said, ‘Whose season is not limited, nor (supply) forbidden?’ Therefore the Honorable the Exalted God knows about these and does not block them from accessing to what is added. Will He not replace what the residents of Paradise eat and drink?” Soleiman said, “Yes.”The Imam (s) said, “Has He stopped His Granting now that He has replaced the consumed foods and drinks?” Soleiman said, “No.”Then Al-Ridha (s) said, “O Soleiman! Tell me about Will: Is it an action or not?”Soleiman said, “It is an action.”The Imam (s) said, “Therefore it is originated, for all actions are originated.” Soleiman said, “It is not an action.”The Imam (s) said, “Has there then been something else with Him who is eternal?” Soleiman said, “The Will is the same as bringing forth.”The Imam (s) said, “O Soleiman! This is exactly what you criticized Dirar and his companions of, saying that everything that the Honorable the Exalted God has created in the heavens, the Earth, the oceans or on land such as dogs, pigs, monkeys, humans or animals are God’s Will, and that God’s Will lives, dies, goes away, eats, drinks, marries, feels pleasure, oppresses, commits immoral acts, disbelieves, becomes a polytheist. We denounce this and oppose it. This is its limit.”Soleiman said, “It (i.e. will) is like hearing, seeing and knowledge.”Al-Ridha (s) said, “You just returned to what you said before. Tell me: Are hearing, seeing and knowledge made?”Soleiman said, “No.” Al-Ridha (s) said, “How do you then refute Will? You sometimes say that He did not will and sometimes you say that He willed, and that it (i.e. will) was not one of His actions.”Soleiman said, “Surely, that is like saying, He sometimes knows and sometimes does not know!”Al-Ridha (s) said, “That is not the same, for negating the known is not like negating knowledge; negating what is willed is (not like) negating the will, for if the thing is not willed, there will be no will. However, sometimes there is knowledge, but there may be no known thing. This is like seeing. Man may be able to see, but there may be nothing there for him to see. Likewise, there may be knowledge, but there is no known thing.” Soleiman said, “It (i.e. will) is made.” The Imam (s) said, “Therefore, it (will) is originated and is not like hearing and seeing, for hearing and seeing are not made, and it (will) is made.”Soleiman said, “It (will) is one of His eternal attributes.” The Imam (s) answered, “Therefore, man must be eternal, for his quality is eternal.”Soleiman said, “No, because He did not do it (will)”. Al-Ridha (s) said, “O Khorasani! How often you make mistakes! Are things not made according to His Will and Words?” Soleiman said, “No.” The Imam (s) said, “If things are not made according to His Will or Volition, His Command or His Practice, then how are they made? God is High Exalted above that!” Soleiman could not respond.Then Al-Ridha (s) asked, “Will you not tell me about these Words of the Honorable the Exalted God: ‘When We decide to destroy a population, We (first) send a definite order to those among them who are given the good things of this life and yet transgress…’By ‘We decide’ does God mean that He creates His own Will?” Soleiman said, “Yes.”The Imam (s) answered him, “If He creates His own Will, then your statement that ‘Will is He Himself or is a part of him’ is futile, for it is not (possible) for Him to create Himself and God does not change His State. God is High Exalted above that.”Soleiman told him, “Yes.” The Imam (s) said, “Then if He originates the Will, what you said, “Will is the same as God Himself or a part thereof” is wrong since God does not originate Himself or change from His current state. God is High Exalted above that.”Soleiman asked, “By that He does not mean that He creates His own will?”The Imam (s) asked, “So what does He mean?”Soleiman said, “He means doing something.”Al-Ridha (s) said, “Woe unto you! How many times have you repeated this issue? I told you that will is originated, since the action and the Creation of a thing is originated.”Soleiman said, “Then this has no meaning.”Al-Ridha (s) said, “Do you then think that He describes Himself with will which has no meaning? If will has no eternal or originated meaning, then that will nullify your statement, “The Honorable the Exalted God has always been willing.” Soleiman said, “I mean to say that willing has been one of the eternal actions of the Sublime God.”The Imam (s) said, “Don’t you know that what is eternal cannot be made, originated and eternal at the same time?”Soleiman could not answer. Al-Ridha (s) said, “Never mind! Complete your questions.” Soleiman said, “Did you say that Will is one of His Attributes?”The Imam (s) said, “Why do you repeat this so many times? Are His Attributes originated or eternal?” Soleiman said, “Originated.”Al-Ridha (s) said, “God is the Greatest! You are telling me that the Will is originated, even though it is one of His Eternal Attributes. Therefore God has not willed anything!” The Imam (s) added, “Whatever is eternal is not created.”Soleiman said, “Things are not the same as the will, and He did not will anything.”Al-Ridha (s) said, “O Soleiman! You are whispering. Has God created what He has not willed to create? This is an attribute of someone who does not know what he is doing. God is High Exalted above that!”Soleiman said, “O my Master! I have already informed you that it is like hearing, seeing and knowing.”Al-Ma’mun said, “O Soleiman! Woe unto you! How often have you erred and how often have you have repeated yourself? Stop it and take up another issue since you seem to be unable to provide any better answer than that.”Al-Ridha (s) said, “O Commander of the Faithful! Leave him alone! Do not interrupt his questions, since then he will regard it as an argument (against me). O Soleiman! Speak.”Soleiman said, “I have already informed you that it is like hearing, seeing and knowing.”Al-Ridha (s) said, “Never mind! Tell me whether will has one meaning or several meanings.” Soleiman said, “One meaning.”Al-Ridha (s) said, “Is the meaning of all the wills then the same?” Soleiman said, “Yes.”Al-Ridha (s) said, “If its meanings are the same, then it must be that the will to stand up is the same as the will to sit down, or the will to live isthe same as the will to die. If His Will is all one thing, then none of God’s desires will take precedence over any others. None will be any different from any others. They will all be one thing.”Soleiman replied, “Surely, the meanings are different.”The Imam (s) said, “Then, tell me about the willed. Is it the same as the will or is it something else?” Soleiman said, “Yes. It is the same as the will.”Al-Ridha (s) said, “Then according to you the willed is something else since it is the same as the will.” Soleiman said, “O my Master! Will is not the same as the willed.”Al-Ridha (s) said, “Then will is originated. Otherwise it must be that something else existed along with God. Understand this well. Continue on with your questions.”Soleiman said, “It is one of His Names.”Al-Ridha (s) said, “Did He name Himself that?”Soleimam replied, “No. He did not name Himself that.”Al-Ridha (s) said, “Therefore, you have no right to name Him with what He did not name Himself.” Soleiman said, “But He described Himself to be willed.”Al-Ridha (s) said, “The fact that He has described Himself as willed does not mean that He wanted to inform us that He is the Will, or that Will is one of His Names.” Soleiman said, “That is because His Will is the same as His Knowledge.”Al-Ridha (s) said, “O Ignorant one! If He knows something, does that not mean that He has willed it.” Soleiman said, “Yes.” The Imam (s) asked, “But if He does not will something, does that mean that He does not know it?” Soleiman said, “Yes.”The Imam (s) said, “What is your source for that statement? What is the evidence that His Will is the same as His Knowledge? He may know something but never Will it. This is supported by what the Honorable the Exalted God said, ‘If it were Our Will, We could take away that which We have sent thee by inspiration…’ And God knows how to take it away, but He never will.” Soleiman said, “That is because He has finished running the affairs and will not add anything to what He has destined.”Al-Ridha (s) said, “This is what the Jews say. The Sublime God said, ‘…Call on Me; I will answer your (Prayer)…’ Soleiman said, “By this He means that He is able to do that.” The Imam (s) said, “Does He then make a promise which He will not fulfill?” Then how come He said, ‘…He adds to Creation as He pleases…’ And the Honorable the Exalted God said, ‘Allah doth blot out or confirm what He pleaseth: with Him is the Mother of the Book.’ Has He finished running the affairs?” Soleiman could not answer.Al-Ridha (s) said, “O Soleiman! Does He know that a human being would be created while He did not will to create a human being by no means? That a human being will die today while He has not willed to make him die today?” Soleiman said, “Yes.”Al-Ridha (s) asked, “Does He know that what He wills exists or does He know about what He has not willed does not exist?” Soleiman said, “He knows that both of them exist.” Al-Ridha (s) said, “Therefore, He knows that man is simultaneously alive and dead, is standing and sitting, is blind and seeing at the same time. This is impossible.” Soleiman said, “May I be your ransom! He knows that one of them will exist.”The Imam (s) said, “Do not worry. Which one will exist? The one which He willed, or the one which He did not will?” Soleiman said, “What He has willed to be!”Al-Ridha (s), Al-Ma’mun and the scholars started to laugh.Al-Ridha (s) said, “You have erred and departed from your initial statements, “He knows that some people will die today while He has not willed to make them die today, that He creates creatures while He does not will to create them.” If your hold that knowledge does not apply to what He has not willed, then He alone knows what He has willed.Soleiman said, “My statement is that Will is neither He nor something other than Him!”Al-Ridha (s) said, “O Ignorant one! If you say that will is not He, then you have regarded it as (something) other than him. If you say that willis not (something) other than Him, then you have regarded it as Him.” Soleiman asked, “Does God know how He creates things?”Al-Ridha (s) said, “Yes.” Soleiman said, “Surely, this establishes something.” Al-Ridha (s) said, “You have said something impossible. That is because man may know how to build a wall, even though he does not build one; may know how to sew, even though he does not sew anything; or may know how to make something well, even though he does not make it.”Then Al-Ridha (s) said, “O Soleiman! Does God know that He is One without anything with Him?” Soleiman replied, “Yes.”Al-Ridha (s) said, “Does this establish that there is something along with Him?” Soleiman said, “He does not know that He is One without anything with Him.”Al-Ridha (s) asked, “Do you know that?”Soleiman replied, “Yes.”“O Soleiman! Therefore you are more knowledgeable than Him!” Soleiman said, “This is impossible.”The Imam (s) said, “Is it impossible in your view that He is One without anything with Him, that He is All-Hearing, All-Seeing, All-Wise, and All-Powerful?” He replied, “Yes.” The Imam (s) said, “Then how did the Honorable the Exalted God say that He was One, All-Living, All-Hearing, All-Seeing, All-Wise, All-Powerful, All-Knowing, All-Aware, while He did not know that? This refutes what you say. God is High Exalted above that.”Then Al-Ridha (s) asked him, “How does He will to create that which He does not know how to create and what it is? If a creator does not know how to create something before he creates it, then he is perplexed. The Sublime God is Exalted High above that!”Soleiman said, “Will is the same as Power.” Al-Ridha (s) said, “He - the Honorable the Exalted always has power over what He wills. There is no escape from that, for He - the Blessed the Sublime said, ‘If it were Our Will, We could take away that which We have sent thee by inspiration…’ If will is the same as power, God had Willed to take it away because of His Power.” Then Soleiman remained silent.At this time Al-Ma’mun said, “O Soleiman! This is the most learned of the Hashemites!” Then the people dispersed.The author of this book (Sheikh Sadooq) - may God be pleased with him - said, “Al-Ma’mun was jealous of (the scholarly position of) Al-Ridha (s). Therefore, he invited the scholars of the various sects and religions who had deviated from the straight path and anyone he knew or had heard of around the globe to have debates with Al-Ridha (s) and defeat the Imam (s) in his (s) proofs, so that Al-Ma’mun’s feelings of jealousy be somewhat relieved and the Imam’s (s) scientific position be discredited. However, whoever held a debate with the Imam (s) acknowledged his (s) nobility and was convinced by the proofs presented by the Imam (s). This was because God - High be His Remembrance - did not like anyone to defeat Al-Ridha (s). God perfects His Light and assists His Proof. This is what the Blessed the Sublime God has promised in His Book, ‘We will, without doubt, help our apostles and those who believe, (both) in this world’s life…’ By ‘those who believe’, God means the Immaculate Imams, their knowledgeable followers and those who have adopted the Imams’ proof against their enemies for as long as they are in this world. God will treat them likewise in the Hereafter. The Honorable the Exalted God will never act against His Promise.

“My cousin `Ali ibn Musa al-Rida (AS) has come here from Hejaz. He likes theology and theologians. Thus, it would not be any trouble if you came on the Day of Tarwiyah to have a debate with him.” Sulayman said: “O Commander of the Faithful! I dislike questioning him in your session and among a group of Hashimites. The people will regard him as incapable when he debates with me on theology. Incapabilities are not permissible for him.” Al-Ma`mun said: “I have invited you because of my recognition of your strength. I have no intentions except for you t silence him in an argument.” Sulayman said: “O Commander of the Faithful! I will do it for you. Just bring us together, sit down, and watch.” Then al-Ma`mun sent someone after al-Rida (AS) and said: “A man from Marw who has no equal in Khurasan in theology has come, and asked for you to come to us. Come here if you do not mind.” The Imam (AS) made ablution and told us to go ahead. `Imran the Sabian was with us. We went until we arrived at al-Ma`mun’s court. Yasir and Khalid took me by the hand, and led me in to al-Mamun. When I greeted him, he asked, “Where is my brother Abu alHasan? May Allah keep him alive!” I said: “When we were coming he was putting on his clothes. He ordered us to go ahead.” Then I added, “O Commander of the Faithful! Your servant `Imran is also with me. He is right outside.” He asked, “Who is `Imran?” I answered, “He is the Sabian who became a Muslim because of you.” He said: “Let him in.” Then `Imran came in. Al-Ma`mun welcomed him, and then told him, “O Imran! You joined the Hashimites before your death!” `Imran said: “O Commander of the Faithful! Praise be to Allah who honored me by you.” Al-Ma`mun said: “O `Imran! This is Sulayman al-Marwazi, who is the theologian from Khurasan.” `Imran said: “O Commander of the Faithful! He thinks that he is the only one in Khurasan versed in theoretical principles, and he refutes appearance [bada`].” Al-Ma`mun said: “Why do you not debate with him?” `Imran said: “This depends on him.” Then al-Rida (AS) came in and asked, “What were you discussing?” `Imran said: “O son of the Prophet of Allah! This is Sulayman al-Marwazi.” Sulayman said to `Imran. “Will you be pleased with Abu al-Hasan and what he says about appearance.” `Imran said: “Yes. I will, if he presents argument like those I can present when I debate with other theologians like myself.” Al-Ma`mun said: “O Abu al-Hasan! What is your opinion regarding what they argue about?” The Imam (AS) said: O Sulayman! How could you not believe in appearance while Allah, the Mighty and High, said: But does not man call to mind that We created him before out of nothing? And the Mighty and High said: It is He who originates the creation, then He causes it to recur again, and says: Originator of the heavens and the earth. Moreover, the Mighty and High said: He began the creation of man from clay. Also the mighty and High says: And others are mate to await Allah’s Command, whether He will chastise them, or turn in mercy to them. And the Mighty and High says: None ages, nor any diminishes from one’s life except what is in a Book. Sulayman asked, “Has anything been narrated to you on this issue from your forefathers?” The Imam (AS) said: Yes. It has been narrated on the authority of Abu `Abd Allah al-Sadiq (AS) who said: Verily, Allah, the Mighty and High, possesses two types of knowledge: a Guarded or Hidden Knowledge, which no one knows but He. Appearance is rooted in that knowledge. And He possesses a second type of knowledge which he has taught to His Angels (AS) and his Messengers (AS), and which the learned members of the Household of the Prophet (AS) also know. Sulayman said: “I would like you to present this from the Book of Allah, the mighty and High.” The Imam (AS) said: That is the Word of Allah, the Mighty and High to His Prophet (SA0: So turn you back upon them for you are not to be blamed. Allah first intended to destroy them, then it appeared for Allah so He said: And remind them, for verily reminding avails the believers. Sulayman said: “May I be your ransom! Tell me more.” Then al-Rida (AS) said: My father (AS) informed me on the authority of his forefathers (AS) that the Messenger of Allah (SA) said: Verily, Allah, the Mighty and High, revealed to one of His Prophets to let one of the kings know that I will take away his life at such and such a time. The Prophet went to see the King and told him that. Then the King pleaded to Allah, while he was on his until he fell off of it. He said: “O Lord! Postpone m demise until I see my son grow up to undertake my affairs.” Then Allah, the Mighty and High, revealed to that Prophet, “Go to that king and inform him that I have decided to postpone his death. I have added fifteen years to his life.” The Prophet said: “O Lord! You know very well that I have never lied.” Then Allah, the Mighty and High, revealed to him, “Verily, you are a servant ordained. Therefore, announce this to him. Allah is never questioned about what He does.” Then the Imam (AS) turned towards Sulayman and said: “I think you have the same opinion as the Jews in this regard.” Sulayman said: “I seek refuge in Allah from such a thing. What have the Jews said?” The Imam (AS) said: The Jews say, `God’s hand is tied up. They mean that Allah has finished working, is sitting back, and does not create anything else. However, Allah, the Mighty and High, has given them the following answer: Be their hands tied up, and be they cursed for what they say. I have also heard a group of people asking my father Musa ibn Ja`far (AS) about appearance, so he said: “What do the people refute from the appearance, while Allah mighty delay the affairs of some people for a decision regarding them?” Sulayman asked, “can you tell me for what has the following verse been revealed? Verily, We have revealed this (Qur’an) in the Night of Power. The Imam (AS) said: “O Sulayman! Allah, the Mighty and High, decides the destiny for that year including life or death, good or evil, and sustenance on the Night of Power. Whatever He destines on that night comes to be.” Sulayman said: “Now I understand. May I be your ransom! Please tell me more.” The Imam (AS) said: O Sulayman! Some of the affairs are up to Allah, the Blessed and Exalted, and what He wills. He can expedite what He wills, and delay what He wills. O Sulayman, `Ali (AS) used to say, “Knowledge is of two types: Knowledge which Allah has taught His Angels and His Messengers, and knowledge which He has hidden, and of which none of His Creation is aware. What Allah has taught His Angels and His Messengers will be done, for He does not belie Himself, His Angels or His Messengers. It is through His Hidden Knowledge that He expedites or delays what He wills, removes what He wills, and asserts what He wishes to assert. Sulayman told al-Ma`mun, “O Commander of the Faithful! Allah willing, from this day on I will not refute or deny the doctrine of appearance.” Al-Ma`mun said: ”O Sulayman! Ask Abu al-Hasan whatever you wish. Just listen carefully and be fair.” Sulayman said: “O my Mater! May I question you?” Al-Rida (AS) said: “Ask whatever you wish.” Sulayman said, “What is your view about someone who considers the Divine Will to be a name or an attribute like the `Ever-Living,’ the `All-Hearing,’ the `All-Seeing,’ and the `Omnipotent’?” Al-Rida (AS) replied, You claim that things have emerged and become different because He so willed and intended. However, you do not say that things have emerged and become different, because He is All-Hearing and All-Seeing. This is a proof that they (i.e. Will and Intent) are not similar to attributes such as the All-Hearing, the All-Seeing, and the Omnipotent. Sulayman said: “He has always been an Intender.” The Imam (AS) answered him, “O Sulayman! Is His Intent something other than Him?” He replied, “Yes.” The Imam (A) said: “Then you have proved that there has always been something alongwith Him forever.” Sulayman said: “No. I have not.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “Has intent emerged?” Sulayman said: “No. It has not emerged.” Then al-Ma`mun shouted at him and said: “O Sulayman! Are you showing obstinacy, and giving vague answers to such a person as him. You must be fair. Do not you see that you are surrounded by intellectuals?” Then he said: “O Abu al-Hasan! Continue your speech, since he is the theologian of Khurasan.” So the Imam (AS) repeated his question, “O Sulayman! Has it (the intent) emerged? For verily, if a thing is not sempiternal, then it has emerged, and if it has not emerged, then it is sempiternal.” Sulayman said: “His Intent is from Him just as His Hearing, His Seeing and His Knowledge are from Him.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “then is He the same as His Intent?” Sulayman answered, “No.” The Imam (AS) said: “Therefore, the intender is not like the hearing and the seeing.” Sulayman said: “surely, He intended Himself, in the same way that He heard Himself, that He was Himself, and that He knew Himself.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “What is the meaning of `He intended Himself? Did He intend to be a Thing? Did He intend to be All-Living, All-Hearing, All-Seeing or All-Powerful?” Sulayman said: “Yes.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “Did that occur through His Intent?” Sulayman answered, “No.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “Then your statement, `He intended to be All-Living, All-Hearing, and All-Seeing’ does not make any sense, since they were not done through His Intent.” Sulayman said: “Yes. That was through His Intent.” Then al-Ma`mun and the people around him, burst into laughter. Al-Rida (AS) laughed as well and said: “Do not be too hard on the theologian from Khurasan. O Sulayman! Do you think that He has altered from state to state, and changed due to it? This is something by which Allah, the Mighty and High, cannot be described.” Sulayman remained silent. Al-Rida (AS) said: “O Sulayman! May I ask you a question?” The Imam (AS) said: “Tell me about you and your companions: Do you debate with the people on theology according to what you understand and know or according to what you do not understand and do not know?” Sulayman said: “Yes! According to what w understand and know.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “What the people know is that the intender is different from the intent. The intender exists before the intent. The subject is before the object. This disproves y our statement, `The intender and the intended are the same thing.’” Sulayman said: “May I be your ransom! This is not what the people know about and understand.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “I think you have claimed to have knowledge without understanding it. You have said: `Intending is like hearing and seeing’ while this view is not based on knowledge and intellect.” Sulayman could not answer. Then Al-Rida (AS) said: “O Sulayman! Does Allah, the Mighty and High, have knowledge of all that is in Paradise and the Fire?” Sulayman said: “Yes.” The Imam (AS) said: “If Allah, the Mighty and High, knows that something will be created in the future, will He actually create it?” Sulayman answered, “Yes.” The Imam (AS) said: “If it is done to the extent that nothing else remains, can He add more to it or will He stop doing so?” Sulayman said: “He will add to them.” The Imam (AS) said: “then based on what you have said: He adds to them what He did not know would be crated.” He responded, “May I be your ransom! There is no limit for adding.” The Imam (AS) said: Then in your opinion His Knowledge does not encompass what is in the two (Paradise and Hell)_, since He does not know the limit of that. IF His Knowledge does not encompass what is therein, then He would not know what will be there before it existed. Exalted is Allah, the Elevated and High, from that! Sulayman said: “When I said he does not know about them, it was because they have no limit, and Allah, the Mighty and High, Himself has described them as eternal. Therefore, we do not want to assume an end for them.” Al-Rida (AS) said: His Knowledge of them will not limit them. There are many instances of which He has knowledge, then He adds to them, and does not take away what He has added to them. These are supported by the Word of Allah, the Mighty and High, in His Book: As often as their skins are burned away, We will change them for other skins, so that they may taste the torment. And the Mighty and High says to the inhabitants of Paradise: An unceasing gift. And the Mighty and High said: And abundant fruit, neither failing (be season) not forbidden. Therefore, the High and Mighty knows about these, and does not prevent them from accessing what is added. Will He not replace what the inhabitants of Paradise eat and drink? Sulayman said: “Yes.” The Imam (AS) said: “Does the fact that he replaces the consumed food and drink mean that He has stopped granting?” Sulayman said: “No.” The Imam (AS) said: “Therefore, when whatever is consume in Paradise, Allah will replace it with other things. And the inhabitants of paradise will not be prevented from consuming them.” Sulayman said: “Well. He will limit what is added to them, and he will not give them anything else.” Al-Rida (AS) said: Then whatever is in Paradise and hell will end. O Sulayman! This is against eternity and the Book since Allah, the Mighty and High, says: For them therein shall be whatever they desire, and with Us is yet eve more. The Mighty and High says: An unceasing gift. And the Mighty and High says: Not shall they (ever) be asked to leave. And the Mighty and High says: To abide therein forever. And the Mighty and High says: And abundant fruit, nether failing (by season) nor forbidden. Sulayman remained silent. Then al-Rida (AS) said: “O Sulayman, tell me about the intent: Is it an action or is it not?” Sulayman said: “It is an action.” The Imam (AS) said: “therefore, it has emerged, for all actions have emerged.” Sulayman said: “It is not an action.” The Imam (AS) said: “Has there then been something else with Him that is eternal?” Sulayman said: “Intending is the same as originating.” The Imam (AS) said: O Sulayman! This is exactly what you criticized of Dirar and his companions when they said that everything that Allah, the Mighty and High, has created in the heavens, the earth, the oceans or on land, such as dogs, pigs, monkeys, humans or animals, forms part of the Intent of Allah, the Mighty and High, and that Allah’s Intent lives, dies, goes away, eats , drinks, marries, gives birth, oppresses, commits immoral acts, disbelieves, and become a polytheist. You denounce this view, and oppose it. This is its limit. Sulayman said: “The intent is like hearing, seeing, and knowledge.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “You just returned to what you said before. Tell me: are hearing, seeing and knowledge created?” Sulayman said: “No.” Al-Rida (AS) asked, “How do you then refute Him? At times you say that He did not intend. At other times you say that He intended, and that His Intent is not His Action?” Sulayman said: “Surely, that is like saying, He sometimes knows, and sometimes does not know!” Al-Rida (AS) said: That is not the same, for negating the known is not like negating knowledge. However, negating the intended is negating the intent, for if the thing is not intended, there will be no intent. However, sometimes there is knowledge, but there may be no known thing. This is like seeing. Man may be able to see, but there may be nothing there for him to see. Likewise, there may be knowledge, while there is nothing to be known. Sulayman said: “the intent is created.” The Imam (AS) said: “Therefore, it has emerged, and is not like hearing and seeing, for hearing and seeing are not created, and the intent is created.” Sulayman said: “The Intent is one of His Eternal Attributes.” The Imam (AS) answered, “Therefore, man must be eternal, for his attribute is eternal.” Sulayman said: “No, because He has not carried out of the intent.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “O Khurasani! How often you make mistakes! Are things not made according to His Intent and His Words?” Sulayman said: “No.” The Imam (AS) said: If things are not made according to His Intent or Will, nor His Command or His Practice, then how are they made? Exalted is Allah from that!” Sulayman could not respond. Then al-Rida (AS) asked, “Will you not tell me about the Word of Allah, the Mighty and High: When We intend to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to those of its people who lead easy lives (to obey Us), and yet they transgress in it. By this `We intend’ He means that He emerges the intent?” Sulayman said to him, “Yes.” The Imam (AS) replied to him, “If He crates the intent, then your statement that `the intent is He Himself or is a part of Him is futile, for it is not possible that He emerged Himself as His State never changes. Exalted is Allah from that!” Sulayman asked, “Does He not mean by that that He caused the intent to emerge?” The Imam (AS) asked, “What would He man by that?” Sulayman said: “He means doing something.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “Woe unto you! How many times have you repeated this issue? I have told you that the intent is emerged, since the action of a thing is emerged.” Sulayman said: “Then this has no meaning.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “Do you then think that He describes Himself with intent which has no meaning? If the intent has no eternal or emerged meaning, then that will nullify your statement, `Allah has always been the Intender.” Sulayman said: “I meant to say that the intent is one of the Eternal Actions of Allah.” The Imam (AS) said; “Do you know the eternal cannot be created or emerged and eternal simultaneously?” Sulayman could not answer. Al-Rida (AS) continued, “Never mind! Complete your questions.” Sulayman said: “Did you say that intent is one of His Attributes?” Al-Rida (AS) said; “How many times will you repeat that the intent is one of His Attributes. Are His Attributes emerged or are they eternal?” Sulayman said: “they are emerged.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “Allah is the Greatest! You are telling me that the intent in emerged, even though it is one of His Eternal Attributes. Therefore, He has not intended anything!” The Imam (AS) added, Whatever is eternal is not created.” Sulayman said: “Things are not the same as the intent, and He did not intend anything.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “O Sulayman! Are you suggesting that He created what He did not intend to create? This is an attribute of someone who does not know what he is doing. Exalted is Allah from that!” Sulayman said: “O my Master! I have already informed you that the intent is like hearing, seeing and knowing.” Al-Ma`mun said: “O Sulayman! Woe unto you! How often have you erred, and how often have you repeated yourself! Cease and address another issue since you seem unable to provide a proper answer.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “O Commander of the Faithful! Leave him alone! Do not interrupt his questions, since then he will regard it as an argument (against me). O Sulayman! Speak.” Sulayman said: “I have already informed you that the intent is like hearing, seeing and knowing.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “Never mind! Tell me whether the intent has one meaning or several meanings.” Sulayman said: “It has one meaning.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “Is the meaning of all the intents then the same?” Sulayman said: “Yes.” Al-Rida (AS) said: If its meanings are the same, then it must be that the intent to stand up is the same as the intent to sit down, or that the intent to live is the same as the intent to die. If His Intent is all one thing, then none of His Desires will take precedence over any others. None will be any different from any others. They will all be one thing. Sulayman replied, “Surely, the meanings are different.” The Imam (AS) said: “Then, tell me about the Intender. Is it the same as the intent or is it something else?” Sulayman said: “Yes. It is the same as the intent.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “Then according to you the intender is something else, since it is the same as the intent.” Sulayman said: “O my Master! The intent is not the same as the intender.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “Then the intent is emerged. Otherwise, it must be that something else existed along with Him. Understand this well, and continue on with your questions.” Sulayman said: “The intent is one of His Names.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “Did He give Himself that name?” Sulayman replied, “No, He did not give Himself that name.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “Therefore, you have not right to give Him a name which He did not give to Himself?” Sulayman said: “But He has described Himself as the Intender.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “the fact that He has described Himself as the Intender does not mean that He wanted to inform us that He is the Intent, or that the Intent is one of His Names.” Sulayman said: “that is because His Intent is the same as His Knowledge.” AlRida (AS) said: “O ignorant man! If He knows something, does that not mean that He has intended it?” Sulayman said: “Yes.” The Imam (AS) asked, “However, if He does not intent something, does that mean that He does not know it?” Sulayman said: “Yes.” The Imam (AS) said: What is your source for that statement? What proof do you have that His Intent is the same as His Knowledge? He may know something, but never intent it. This is supported by His Word the Mighty and High: If We wished, We would certainly take away that which We revealed to you. He knows how to take it away, but He never will. Sulayman said: “That is because He has finished administering the affairs of creation, and will not add anything to what He has destined.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “this is what the Jews say. Then how has the Mighty and High said: Call unto Me; I will answer you. Sulayman said: “He means that He has the power to do so.” The Imam (AS) said: Does He make a promise that He will not fulfill? And if so, then why has He said that He adds to creation whatever He wills. And the Mighty and High said: Allah effaces (of it) whatever He pleases, and confirms (what He wi9lls); with Him is the mother of the Book. Has He finished administering the affairs of creation?” Sulayman could not answer. Al-Rida (AS) said: “O Sulayman! Does He know that a human being will come into existence, while He does not intend to create a human being ever again? Can a person die today, while He does not intend for him to die today?” Sulayman said: “Yes.” Al-Rida (AS) asked, “Does He know what He intends exists? And does He know that what He has not intended does not exist?” Sulayman said: “He knows that both of them exist.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “Therefore, He knows that man is simultaneously alive and dead, is standing and sitting, is blind and seeing. This is impossible.” Sulayman said: “May I be your ransom! He knows that one of them will exist.” The Imam (AS) said: “Do not worry. Which one will exist? The one which He intended or the one which He did not intended?” Sulayman said: “The one He intended will exist!” Al-Rida (AS), al-Ma`mun, and the scholars started to laugh. Al-Rida (AS) said: You have erred and strayed from your initial argument that `He knows that some people will die today, while He has not intended to make them die today, and that He creates creatures, while He does not intend to created them.’ If you hold that knowledge does not apply to what He has not intended, then He alone know what He has intended. Sulayman said; “My statement is that the intent is neither Him nor something other than Him!” Al-Rida (AS) said: “O ignorant man! If you say that He is separate from His Intent, then you are saying that His Intent is something other than Him. If you say that He is not separate from His Intent, then you have regarded His Intent equal to Him.” Sulayman asked, “Does He know hoe He creates things?” Al-Rida (AS) said: “Yes.” Sulaymand said: “surely this establishes something.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “what you have said is impossible because a man may know how to build a wall without building a wall; a man may know how to sew without sewing anything; or a man may know how t do something well without making it. Then al-Rida (AS) added, “O Sulayman! Does He know that He is One without anything with Him?” Sulayman replied, “Yes.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “Does this establish something?” Sulayman said: “He does not know that He is One without anything with Him.” Al-Rida (AS) asked, “Do you know that?” Sulayman replied, “Yes.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “O Sulayman! Therefore, you are more knowledgeable than Him!” Sulayman said: “This is impossible.” The Imam (AS) said: “Is it impossible in your view that He is One without anything with Him, that He is All-Hearing, All-Seeing, All-Wise, All-Knowing, and All-Powerful?” He replied, “Yes.” The Imam (AS) said: Then how did Allah, the Mighty and High, inform that He is One, Ever-Living, AllHearing, All-Seeing, All-Knowing, All-Aware, if He did not know that? This rejects and belies what He has said. Exalted is Allah from that!” Then Al-Rida (AS) asked him, “How does He intend to make something He does not know how to make? If a creator does not know how to create something before he creates it, then he is perplexed. Exalted is Allah from that! Sulayman said: “Intent is the same as Omnipotence.” Al-Rida (AS) said: He, the Mighty and High, has power over what He does not intend. There is no escape from that for He, the Blessed and Exalted, said: If it were Our Will, We could take away that which We have sent by inspiration. If intent is the same as omnipotence, He had intend to take it away for His Omnipotence. Sulayman remained silent. At this time Al-Ma`mun said: “O Sulayman! This is the most learned of the Hashimites!” Then the people dispersed. The Compiler of this book says: Al-Ma`mun was bringing together theologians of various schools of Islam and other religions who had deviated from the Straight Path, in an attempt to embarrass al-Rida and defeat him in debate. This was motivated by al-Ma`mun’s jealousy of him, and due to the stature that al-Rida`s (AS) knowledge gave him. However, all those who debated with him (AS) ended up acknowledging his nobility, and were convinced by the proofs presented by the Imam (AS). This was because Allah, Exalted by His Remembrance, honored His Word, accomplished His Light and assisted His Proof. This is what the Blessed and Exalted has promised in His Book: Verily, We help Our messengers and those who believe in the life of this world, by `those who believe,’ He mean the Immaculate Imams (AS), their followers, those who recognize them, and those who acquire knowledge from them. He assists them with proofs against their rivals for as long as they are in this world. He will treat them likewise in the Hereafter. Verily, Allah does not act against His Promise.

“I have gathered you for (something) good and want you to have a debate with my cousin from Medina, who will come to me. Come to me tomorrow morning. None of you should be absent.”They said, “O Commander of the Faithful! We listen and obey you. God willing, we will be here first thing in the morning.”Al-Nawfali said, “We were talking to Abil Hassan (s) when Yasir - the servant who was in charge of serving Abil Hassan (s) entered and told him, “O my master! Indeed the Commander of the Faithful expressed his greetings to you and said, May your brother be your ransom! Indeed the chief scientists, scholars from all religions and masters of speech from all nations have all gathered together here with me. Would you like to come to us and have a discussion with them? If you do not wish to do so, do not bother yourself. Even if you prefer, we do not mind coming to you. Then Abul Hassan said, “Express my greetings to him and tell him that I understand what you mean. God willing, I will come to you myself tomorrow morning.”Al-Hassan ibn Muhammad al-Nawfali said, ‘When Yasir went out, the Imam (s) turned to me and said, ‘O Nawfali! You are an Iraqi, and an Iraqi’s heart is not hard. So, what do think is your cousin’s intention in setting up a meeting between me and the pagans and scholars?”Al-Nawfali answered, “May I be your ransom! He wants to test you, and wants to know how much knowledge you possess. He has, indeed, based his assumption on shaky grounds. By God, what he has set up is dangerous.”The Imam (s) asked, “And what has he set up?”Al-Nawfali said, “The theologians and the heretics are different from the scholars. That is because a scholar does not deny the undeniable, whereas rhetoricians, theologians, and polytheists are people who deny things and try to prove what is not true. If you argue with them and tell them that God is One, they would say, ’Prove His Oneness’, and if yousay that Muhammad (s) is the Messenger of God, they would say, ’Prove his Prophethood.’ May I be your ransom! They confuse you and make you disprove your own proofs. They continue these false accusations until you back off.”Al-Nawfali added, “Then the Imam (s) smiled and told me, ‘O Al-Nawfali! Do you fear that they will disprove my argument?’”Al-Nawfali said, ‘No, by God! I have never worried about you, and I hope that God willing, God will make you victorious over them!’The Imam (s) asked again, ‘O Nawfali! Would you like to know when Al-Ma’mun will feel regretful?’ He answered, ‘Yes.’ The Imam (s) said, ‘When he (al-Ma’mun) hears me argue with the people of the Torah quoting their own Torah, with the people of the Gospel quoting their own Gospel, with the people of the Psalms quoting their own Psalms, with the Zoroastrians arguing in their Persian language, with the Romans in their own Latin, and with the rhetoricians using their very own rhetoric. So, if I close the avenues of argument in the face of each arguing party and disprove his claim, making him renounce his statement from its onset and referring to my own statement, then Al-Ma’mun will realize that he has not achieve what he aspires to achieve. It is then that he will feel regretful. And there is no strength save in the Highest, the Almighty God.’”On the following day, Al-Fadhl ibn Sahl went in a hurry to see the Imam (s) and told him, “May I be your ransom! Your cousin is waiting for you. The people have gathered together. When will you go to him?”Al-Ridha (s) told him, “You go ahead. God willing, I will come to you.” Then he (s) made ablutions for praying, drank something, ate some soup with us and we all left. Then we reached Al-Ma’mun’s palace. The meeting was full of people. Muhammad ibn Ja’far, some of the Talibites and the Hashemites, and the Commanders of the Army were amongst those present.When Al-Ridha (s) entered, Al-Ma’mun stood up. Muhammad ibn Ja’far and all the Hashemites who were present there stood up for him. The Imam and Al-Ma’mun sat down while all the people were still standing, until Al-Ma’mun ordered them to sit down. Al-Ma’mun talked to the Imam (s) for a while. Then Al-Ma’mun turned to the CatholicArchbishop and said, “O Catholic Archbishop! This is my cousin Ali ibn Musa ibn Ja’far (s). He is one of the children of (the Blessed Lady) Fatima (s) - the daughter of our Prophet (s) - and Ali ibn Abi Talib (s). I would like you to have a debate with him and be fair with him.The Catholic Archbishop said, “O Commander of the Faithful! How can I argue with a man who argues with me using a Book which we have denied and a Prophet whom I do not believe in?”Al-Ridha (s) told him, “O Christian! Will you accept it if I present proofs from your Gospel?”The Catholic Archbishop said, “How could I reject what the Bible speaks about? I swear to God that I will accept it even if I dislike it.”Al-Ridha (s) told him, “Ask whatever you wish to ask and receive your answer.”The Catholic Archbishop said, “What is your opinion about the Prophethood of Jesus (s) and his Book? Do you deny either one of them?”Al-Ridha (s) said, “I admit to the Prophethood of Jesus (s), his Book, and what he advised his nation to do- which his disciples accepted. However, I reject the Prophethood of any Jesus who has not professed the Prophethood of Muhammad, his Book and what he (s) advised his nation to do.”The Catholic Archbishop said, “Aren’t precepts proved through two just witnesses?”The Imam (s) said, “Yes.” The Catholic Archbishop said, “Therefore, name two witnesses other than the people of your own nation and ones whom Christianity does not reject to testify to the Prophethood of Muhammad. Likewise, ask us a similar thing from people other than our own nation.”Al-Ridha (s) said, “O Christian! Now you are speaking fairly. Do you accept a just person who was given preference (over others) by the Messiah - Jesus (s): the son of (the Blessed Lady) Mary?”The Catholic Archbishop said, “Who is the just one? Name him for me.”The Imam (s) said, “What is your opinion of John al-Daylami?”The Catholic Archbishop said, “Bravo! Bravo!” You have mentioned the person loved the most by the Messiah.”The Imam (s) said, “Then I ask you to swear to and tell me whether or not the Bible says that John says, ‘The Messiah has informed me of the religion of Muhammad, the Arab, and has given me the glad tidings about him who will be (a Prophet) after him. Therefore, I gave the glad tidings of him to the disciples and they believed in him.’”The Catholic Archbishop said, “John did quote this from the Messiah. He did give the glad tidings of a man who will be a Prophet, his Household and his Trustees. He has not clarified when this will happen and has not named them so that we may know who they are.”Al-Ridha (s) said, “If we bring someone here who can recite the Bible and he recites to you Muhammad’s name, his Household, and his nation, will you believe in him?” The Catholic Archbishop said, “What a sound suggestion!”Al-Ridha (s) turned to Nestus the Roman and asked him, “Have you memorized the third Book of the Bible?”He answered, “I have thoroughly memorized it.” Then the Imam (s) addressed the Catholic Archbishop and said, “Can you recite the Bible?” The Catholic Archbishop said, “Yes, of course.”The Imam (s) said, “Then I will recite to you (some verses from) the third Book. If Muhammad (s), his Household, and his nation were mentioned in it, then bear witness! And if they have not been mentioned therein, then do not bear witness.” Then the Imam (s) recited to him some of the verses of the third Book until he (s) reached the reference to the Prophet (s). He stopped reading and said, “O Christian! I challenge you to swear by the Messiah and his mother. Have you realized that I have knowledge of the Bible?” He replied, “Yes.”The Imam recited to him some verses from the third Book concerning the reference to the Prophet, his Household and his community. Then the Imam (s) said, “O Christian! What do you think now? These are the words of Jesus: the son of (the Blessed Lady) Mary (s). If you deny what the Bible says, then you will deny Moses (s) and Jesus (s). If you deny them, then it is incumbent (upon the people) to kill you since you have blasphemed against your Lord, your Prophet and your Book.”The Catholic Archbishop said, “I do not deny the clear things in the Bible, rather I profess them.”The Imam (s) asked others who were present, “Bear witness that he professed.”Then the Imam (s) told the Catholic Archbishop, “O Catholic Archbishop! Ask me any other questions that you wish to ask.”The Catholic Archbishop asked, “What about the disciples of Jesus (s): the son of (the Blessed Lady) Mary (s)? How many were they? And tell me about the scholars of the Bible. How many were they?”Al-Ridha (s) said, “You have found the expert! As for (the number of) the disciples, they were twelve men. The best and the most learned of them was Aluqas (Luke). As for (the number of) Christian scholars, there were three men: John (Yohanna), ‘the greatest’, John at Qriqisiya, and John - the al-Daylami at Zijar, who made reference to the Prophet Muhammad (s). It is he who gave the good news to the nation of Jesus and the Children of Israel about the Prophet Muhammd.”The Imam (s) added, “O Christian! By God, we believe in the Jesus who believed in Muhammad (s). We have nothing against Jesus (s) except for his weakness and the paucity of his fasting and prayer.”The Catholic Archbishop said, “By God, you have corrupted your knowledge! Your affair has become weak! I thought that you were the most learned of the Muslims!”Al-Ridha (s) asked, “Why?” The Catholic Archbishop said, “Since you said that Jesus was weak with little fasting and praying, while Jesus never broke fasting by day and never slept at night. He always fasted during the day and prayed at night.”Al-Ridha (s) said, “For whom did he fast and pray?” The Catholic Archbishop did not answer, not knowing what to say.Al-Ridha (s) said, “I want to ask you a question.” The Catholic Archbishop said, “Ask. I will respond to you if I know the answer.”Al-Ridha (s) said, “Why do you deny that Jesus (s) gave life to the dead with the Honorable the Exalted God’s permission?”The Catholic Archbishop said, “I denied that before, since whoever giveslife to the dead and heals the blind and the leprous is a lord worthy of being worshipped.”Al-Ridha (s) said, “Well. Indeed al-Yasa (Elija) did just as Jesus (s) did. He walked on water, gave life to the dead, and healed the blind and the leprous. Why did his nation not adopt him as a Lord? Why did not anyone worship him as a god other than God?”The Prophet Hezqeel (Ezekiel) (s) did just what Jesus (s) did. He gave life to thirty-five men sixty years after their death.” Then the Imam (s) turned towards the Catholic Archbishop and told him, “O Catholic Archbishop! Have you found the following about some of the youth of the Children of Israel in the Torah? When Bukht Nasr (Nebuchadnezzar) invaded Jerusalem, he chose from amongst the Children of Israel who were enslaved and took them with him to go to Babylon. Then the Honorable the Exalted God dispatched al-Yasa’ for them and he gave life to them. This (statement) is in the Torah. No one but an atheist would deny it.”The Catholic Archbishop said, “I have heard about this and know it.” The Imam (s) said, “That is right.”Then the Imam (s) said, “O Jew! See if I read the following Book of the Torah properly.” The Imam (s) then recited some of the verses from the Torah for us. The Jew who was surprised hearing how the Imam (s) was reciting the Torah kept moving his body. He then faced the Christian and asked, “O Christian! Were these before Jesus (s) or was Jesus (s) before them?” The Catholic Archbishop said, “They were before him.”Al-Ridha (s) said, “(People from) the Quraysh (tribe) gathered around God’s Messenger Muhammad (s) and asked him to give life to their dead. He (s) sent along Ali ibn Abi Talib with them and told him, “Go to the cemetery and loudly call the people about whom they have asked, Say, “O so-and-so, so-and-so, etc.” Tell them, “God’s Messenger Muhammad (s) says, ‘Rise with the permission of the Honorable the Exalted God!’ Then they will all arise and brush off the dust from their heads.” The people from the Quraysh tribe walked towards them and asked them about their affairs. They told them that Muhammad was appointed as a Prophet. The people who had risen from the dead said, “We wish we had lived in his age and believed in him!” The Prophet healed the blind, the leprous and the insane. He spoke with the beasts, the birds, the jinn,and Satan. Still, we do not adopt him as a Lord other than God. We do not deny the nobilities of any of these Prophets. But you who have adopted Jesus (s) as a Lord, so then is it permissible for you to adopt al-Yasa and Hizqeel as two Lords, for they did just as Jesus (s): the son of (the Blessed Lady) Mary (s) did - acts such as giving life to the dead and else?Moreover, thousands of the Children of Israel left their homeland in fear of death due to plague. God made them die immediately. The people of the village built a fence around them, and left them there until their bones decayed. One of the Prophets of the Children of Israel passed by. He was amazed when he saw many decayed bones. The Honorable the Exalted God revealed to him, “Would you like Me to bring them to life so that you can admonish them?” The Prophet (s) said, “Yes, Lord!” Then the Honorable the Exalted God revealed to him, “Then call them.” He said, “O decayed bones! Rise with God’s permission.” They all rose while brushing off the dust from their heads.”Also Abraham - the friend of God the Merciful (s) - took the birds, cut them into pieces, and put each piece on a mountain top. He called out to them and they came towards him. Moses the son of Imran (s) and seventy of his companions whom he had chosen went to the mountain. They told Moses (s), “You have seen God, then show Him to us.” Moses (s) told them, “I have not seen Him.” But they said, ‘…We shall never believe in thee until we see Allah manifestly…’ A thunderbolt struck them, and burnt them all up. Only Moses (s) survived. Moses (s) said, “O my Lord! I chose seventy men from among the Children of Israel and brought them to the mountain. Shall I return by myself? How shall my people believe what I must tell them? ‘If it had been Thy will Thou couldst have destroyed, long before, both them and me: wouldst Thou destroy us for the deeds of the foolish ones among us? ’ ’’Then the Honorable the Exalted God gave life to them after their death. You cannot deny all these things which I have told you, for the Torah, the Bible, the Psalms of David and the Quran have mentioned them. If all those who gave life to the dead, healed the blind, the leprous and the mad were adopted as Lords other than God, then you should also adopt them as Lords. O Christian! What is your opinion?”The Catholic Archbishop said, “Yes. You are right. There is no god but God.”Then the Imam (s) turned towards the High Rabbi and told him, “O Jew! Turn to me. I swear to you by the Ten Commandments which were sent down to Moses (the son of Imran) to tell me whether or not there exists the following statement about the Prophet Muhammad and his nation in the Torah, “When the people of the last nation whose followers are the Rider of the Camel who extremely glorifies the Lord - new glorifications in new churches (implying mosques), then let the Children of Israel flee towards them and their dominion so that their hearts may be tranquil, since there will be swords in their hands with which they will take revenge on the unbelievers around the globe.” Is this not written in the Torah?” The High Rabbi said, “Yes, we have found that written in this manner.”Then the Imam (s) asked the Catholic Archbishop, “O Christian! How is your knowledge of the Book of Sha’ya?” He answered, “I know it letter by letter.” Then the Imam (s) asked them both, “Do you know that the following statement is made by him?, ‘O people! I have seen the picture of the Rider of the Donkey. He was wearing gowns of light. And I have seen the Rider of the Camel - who is as bright as the moon.’” They answered, “Indeed Sha’ya did say that!”Al-Ridha (s) said, “O Christian! Do you know that Jesus (s) said, ‘I am going to my Lord and your Lord, and the Paraclete is coming who shall testify to my truth just as I testified for him, and he shall explain everything to you, and he shall be the one to expose all the sins of nations, and he shall be the one to smash down the pillars of unbelief?’” The Catholic Archbishop said, “We accept whatever you cite from the Bible.” The Imam (s) said, “O Catholic Archbishop! Have you found this established in the Bible?” The Catholic Archbishop said, “Yes.” Al-Ridha (s) said, “O Catholic Archbishop! When you lost the first Bible, with whom did you find it?” The Catholic Archbishop said, “We only lost the Bible for one day. Then we found it fresh (in its original state). John and Matthew brought it back to us.”Al-Ridha (s) asked him, “How little your knowledge of the Bible and its scholars is! If what you say is right, then why is there so much dispute amongst you with each other about the Bible? The reason is that there iscontroversy lies in the Bible which is in your hands today. Had it been the same as the first Bible, there would no disputes over it. However, I will clarify this for you myself. Know that when the first Bible was lost, the Christians gathered around their scholars and said to them, ‘’Jesus (s): the son of (the Blessed Lady) Mary (s) has been killed, and we have lost the Bible. You are the scholars. What do you have?’ Luke, Mark and John told them, ‘We have memorized the Bible. Do not worry about it. Do not forsake the churches. We will recite each Gospel of the Bible for you on each Sunday until we put it all together.’ Then Luke, Mark, John and Matthew gathered together and put together this Bible after you had lost the first one. These four students were of the first students. Did you know that?”The Catholic Archbishop said, “I did not know this before. Now I have learned it from you due to your noble knowledge of the Bible. I heard things which you knew from you - things which my heart testifies to be the truth. Therefore, I have gained a much better understanding.”Al-Ridha (s) said, “How do you consider what they bear witness to?” The Catholic Archbishop said, “I completely accept whatever they say is right and bear witness to it.” Then Al-Ridha (s) told Al-Ma’mun and those of his family and others who were present, “Be witnesses to this.” They said, “We witness to that.”Then the Imam (s) told the Catholic Archbishop, “I swear by the Son and his Mother to tell us whether you know that Matthew said the following, ‘The Messiah is the son of David, the son of Abraham, the son of Isaac, the son of Jacob, the son of Yehuda, the son of Khadrun.’ Mark said the following regarding the lineage of Jesus (s): the son of (the Blessed Lady) Mary (s), ‘He is God’s Word placed in the human body. So it turned into the human form.’ Moreover, Luke said, ‘Jesus the son of Mary and his mother were humans made of flesh and blood. Then the Holy Spirit entered into them.’ You also testify that Jesus had said the following about himself, ‘O disciples! I will tell you the truth. No one will ascend the heavens, except for him who descends therefrom, except for the Rider of the Camel - the Seal of the Prophets, for he will ascend the heavens and then will descend there from.’ What do you have to say about that?”The Catholic Archbishop said, “These are the words of Jesus (s). We do not deny them.” Al-Ridha (s) said, “If so, what do you say about the testimonies of Luke, Mark and Matthew regarding Jesus (s) and the lineage they attributed to him?”The Catholic Archbishop said, “They ascribed lies to Jesus (s).”Al-Ridha (s) said, “O people! Did he not just bear witness that they (Luke, Mark and Matthew) are the Scholars of the Bible and that what they say is the truth?” The Catholic Archbishop said, “O Scholar of the Muslims! I would like you to excuse me from discussing about these men.”Al-Ridha (s) said, “Fine. I will excuse you from that. O Christian! Ask me whatever you wish to ask.” The Catholic said, “Let someone else ask you questions. By Jesus (s), I did not think that there was a scholar like you among the Muslims.”Al-Ridha (s) turned towards the High Rabbi and said, “Will you ask me questions or should I ask?” The High Rabbi said, “I will ask. However, I will not accept any proofs from you except those from the Torah, the Bible, the Psalms of David, or the Scriptures of Abraham and Moses.”Al-Ridha (s) said, “Do not accept any of my proofs unless they are from the Torah as expressed by Moses (s) - the son of Imran (s), the Bible as expressed by Jesus (s): the son of (the Blessed Lady) Mary (s), or the Psalms of David as expressed by David (s).”The High Rabbi said, “How can you prove the Prophethood of Muhammad (s)?”Al-Ridha (s) said, “Moses (s) - the son of Imran, Jesus (s) - the son of (the Blessed Lady) Mary (s) and David (s) - the Vicegerent of God on the Earth have testified to his Prophethood.”The High Rabbi said, “Provide evidence of the testimony of Moses the son of Imran.”Al-Ridha (s) told him, “O Jew! Do you know that Moses said the following to the Children of Israel, ‘A Prophet will come to you from among your brethren. Believe in him and obey him.’ Do you know that the Children of Israel have no brethren other than the Children of Ishmael? Do you know about the ties of kinship between Israel and Ishmael and the relationship that existed between them from the pastthrough Abraham (s)?” The High Rabbi said, “These are the words of Moses. I do not deny them.” Al-Ridha (s) asked him, “Has any Prophet other than Muhammad (s) come from amongst the brethren of the Children of Israel?” He replied, “No.” Al-Ridha (s) said, “Is this not correct in your opinion?” The High Rabbi said, “Yes, but I want you to prove its correctness from the Torah.”Al-Ridha (s) asked him, “Do you deny that the Torah says the following to you? ‘There came light from Mount Sina. Light shined upon us from Mount Sa’eer and it became apparent to us from Mount Faran.’” The High Rabbi said, “I am familiar with these words, but I do not know what they mean.’”Al-Ridha (s) said, “I will inform you about them. What is meant when it says ‘There came light from Mount Sina’ is a reference to the Blessed the Sublime God’s revelations to Moses (s) on Mount Sina. And what is meant when it says, ‘Light shined upon us from Mount Sa’eer’ is a reference to the Mountain upon which the Honorable the Exalted God sent revelations to Jesus (s) - the son of (the Blessed Lady) Mary (s). Jesus (s) was on that mountain. And what is meant when it says, ‘and it became apparent to us from Mount Faran’ is a reference to a mountain that is one day away from Mecca. As you and your friends said, the Prophet Sha’ya has said in the Torah that ‘I have seen the picture of the Rider of the Donkey. He was wearing gowns of light. And I have seen the Rider of the Camel - who is as bright as the moon.’ Who is the Rider of the Donkey? Who is the Rider of the Camel?” The High Rabbi said, “I do not know who they are.” The Imam (s) said, “The Rider of the Donkey is Jesus (s) and the Rider of the Camel is Muhammad (s). Do you deny that this is from the Torah?” The High Rabbi said, “No, I do not deny that.”Then Al-Ridha (s) said, “Do you know the Prophet Hayquq (s)?” The High Rabbi said, “Yes, I know him.” The Imam (s) said, “He has said the following which your Book has also stated, ‘God brought down the Bay’an from Mount Faran. The heavens are filled with the glorification of Ahmad and his nation. He will carry his troops at sea just as he carries them on land. He will bring us a new Book after the destruction of the Holy House (in Jerusalem).’ Did you know this (statement) and do you believe in it?” The High Rabbi said, “In fact, the Prophet Hayquq (s) has said this. I will not deny his words.”Al-Ridha (s) said, “David said in his Psalms which you have also read, ‘O my God! Appoint him who will establish the Sunna (practice) after the cessation (of the Prophets).’ Did you know of any Prophet other than Muhammad (s) who has established the Sunna after the cessation (of the Prophets)?”The High Rabbi said, “This is what is said by David. We do not deny it. However, he meant Jesus by that, and it is his era that was the age of cessation.” Al-Ridha (s) told him, “You are wrong. In fact, Jesus (s) endorsed the Sunna (practices) of the Torah until God pulled him up to Himself. It is written in the Bible, ‘The son of pious woman will go, and the Paraclete will come after him. It is he who will preserve the bonds, explain everything to you, and testify to my truth just as I testified for him. I have brought you the examples, and he will bring you the interpretations.’ Do you believe that this statement is in the Bible?”The High Rabbi said, “Yes.”Al-Ridha (s) told him, “O the High Rabbi! I want to ask you about your Prophet Moses (s). The High Rabbi said, “Ask.” The Imam (s) said, “What is the evidence for the Prophethood of Moses?”The Jew said, “He brought miracles which the Prophets before him had not brought.” The Imam (s) asked, “Could you give me an example?” The High Rabbi replied, “He split the sea, turned the cane into a running serpent, cleaved the stones so that springs gushed forth from them, took out his hand shining white for the onlookers, and other signs the like of which other creatures were unable to bring.”Al-Ridha (s) told him, “You are right. They are proofs of his Prophethood. He brought the like of which other creatures were unable to bring. Is it obligatory on you to believe in whoever claims Prophethood and performs something which all other creatures are unable to perform?”The High Rabbi said, “No, since there is no one like Moses (s) considering his position near his Lord and his closeness to Him. It is not incumbent upon us to profess the Prophethood of whoever claims it, unless he brings us miracles similar to those brought by Moses (s).”The Imam (s) said, “Then how come you admit the Prophethood of the other Prophets who preceded Moses who did not split the sea; nor didthey cleave the stone so that twelve springs would gush forth from them; nor did they take their hands out shining white as Moses did; nor did they turn the cane into a running serpent.”The Jew replied, “I told you that if they performed miracles as evidence for their Prophethood which all other creatures were unable to perform, and if they brought something the like of which Moses had brought or they followed what Moses had brought, then it is incumbent upon us to believe in them.”Al-Ridha (s) told him, “O High Rabbi! What has prevented you from professing (the Prophethood of) Jesus (s) - the son of (the Blessed Lady) Mary (s)? Jesus (s) brought the dead to life, healed the blind and the leprous, made birds formed of clay and breathed at them giving them life with God’s permission.”The High Rabbi said, “It is said that he did that, but we did not see it.”Al-Ridha (s) said, “Have you seen the miracles performed by Moses? Have you not received this news by way of Moses’s closest trustworthy companions who said he (s) did them?” The High Rabbi said, “Yes. That is so.”The Imam (s) said, “Well. The news about the miracles of Jesus (s) - the son of (the Blessed Lady) Mary (s) have reached you in a similar fashion. Why then did you acknowledge Moses (s) and believe in him, but you did not believe in Jesus?” The High Rabbi did not answer. Al-Ridha (s) said, “The same is true about Muhammad (s) and his miracles. The same is true about any other Prophet appointed by God. One of the miracles of Muhammad (s) was that he was a poor hired shepherd. He had not been taught anything. He did not go to any teachers. However, the Quran which he (s) brought contains the stories of the Prophets (s) and the associated news letter by letter. It has narrated the news of the past and the things to come in the future all the way up until the Resurrection Day. The Quran provided information about what they did in hiding or in their homes. He brought innumerable miracles.” The High Rabbi said, “Neither the account about Jesus nor that about Muhammad are considered correct by us. It is not permissible to admit their Prophethood through what is not correct.”Al-Ridha (s) said, “Has the witness who testified for Jesus and Muhammad then given false testimony?” The High Rabbi did not answer him.Then the Imam (s) called the Zoroastrian High Priest. Al-Ridha (s) told him, “Let me know about Zoroaster who considered himself to be a Prophet. What is your proof of his Prophethood?” The Zoroastrian High Priest said, “He had miracles which no one ever had before him. Of course, I have not seen him, but the stories of our ancestors tell us that he made legitimate for us things which others had not made legitimate. Therefore, we follow him.”The Imam (s) asked, “You believed in the stories which came to you about him, so you followed him, didn’t you?” He replied, “Yes.” The Imam (s) said, “This is the case with all other nations. Stories came to them about what the Prophets had accomplished, and what Moses (s), Jesus (s), and Muhammad (s) had all brought to them. So why didn’t you believe in any of these Prophets, having believed in Zoroaster through the stories that came to you about him saying that he brought forth what others did not?” The Zoroastrian High Priest froze in place.Then Al-Ridha (s) said, “O people! If any of you is opposed to Islam and wants to ask me any questions, then let him ask me without any shame.” Imran As-Sa’bee who was an expert in theology stood up and said, “O Scholar of the people. I would not have asked you any questions if you had not invited me to ask. I have been to Kufa, Basra, Syria and Algeria. There I have met many theologians. However, none of them has been able to establish for me the proof that there is One who has no second other than Him and that He remains to be One Being. Will you permit me to ask you this question?” Al-Ridha (s) said, “If Imran As-Sab’ee is present among the people here, it must be you.” He said, “Yes. This is me.” The Imam (s) said, “O Imran! Ask. But I advise you to be fair. Avoid vain talk and nonsense.” Imran said, “My Master! By God, I just want you to prove something which I can adhere to for me. Then I need not seek anything else.” The Imam (s) said, “Ask whatever you wish to ask.” The crowds moved closer to Imran and crowded in on him. Imran As-Sa’bee asked, “Let me know of the first thing and what it created.”Al-Ridha (s) told him, “You asked. Now try to understand. As for the One, He has always been One Being. He has neither limits nor does Hehave transient qualities. He will always remain so. Then unprecedentedly He created a different creature with transient qualities and various different limits. He neither placed it in anything, nor did He limit it by anything. He neither created it like anything, nor did He create other thing like it. He then created the creatures in various shapes: pure and impure, different and alike, with various colors, flavors and tastes. He did not create them out of a need for them, nor did He create them to attain a higher rank. He did not sense any increase or decrease in Himself due to this Creation. O Imran! Do you understand this?” Imran said, “By God, yes my Master!”The Imam (s) added, “O Imran! Know that if He had created what He created since He needed them, He would have only created things by which He could fulfill His need. In that case, it would have been better for Him to create several times more than what He created, since the more the helpers were, the more powerful their master would be. O Imran! In that case, His need would be a never-ending one. The more He created, the more newer needs appeared for Him. That is why we say that He did not create the creatures out of need. Through Creation He transfers the needs of some of them to others. And He makes some of them nobler than others without any need of the nobler one or without wanting to take any revenge against those whom He had debased. That is how He has created.”Imran asked, “Master! Was the Being known to Himself by His Own Self?” Al-Ridha (s) said, “It is the case that knowledge of something is required to distinguish it from other things, and to prove its existence through what it is negated about it. However, there was nothing else there to oppose Him to make it necessary to negate. Since there was only Him there was no need to establish limits. O Imran! Do you understand?”Imran said, “Yes, by God, my Master! Then tell me, by what means did He come to know what He knew. Was it done by conscience or by something else?” Al-Ridha (s) said, “If it had been that His Knowledge was acquired by conscience, can’t we then establish any limits for that conscience where Knowledge ends?” Imran answered, “There is no way out.” The Imam (s) then asked him, “Then what is that conscience?” Imran could not provide any answer.Al-Ridha (s) said, “Never mind. O Imran! If I now ask you about that conscience and whether you can recognize it through another conscience, and you answer if the affirmative, have you not then disproved your own statement and claim? O Imran! Is it not more proper for you to know that the One cannot be described by a conscience? And that the most that can be said about Him is that He has done something, or created something?He is not such that one can conceive any directions or parts for Him as can be imagined for the creatures and their parts. Understand this and base your proper knowledge on it.”Imran asked, “O my Master! Can you let me know what are the types of limits for His creatures? What is the meaning and what are the varieties of His creatures?”The Imam (s) said, “You asked. Now understand. In fact, there are six types of limits for His creatures. These are the tangibles; the weighable; the seeable; those that have no weight - that is spirit; those that are seeable but are without any weight, are untouchable, intangible, colorless, and tasteless; and the measurable that are the widths, the forms, width and height. Included amongst them are deeds and movements which make things, act upon them, change them from one state to another, increase them, or reduce them. As for deeds and movements, they pass by since they have no more time than that which is ordained for their need. Whenever a deed is finished and the movement is stopped it ends, but its effects remain just like talking which ends but its effect remains.”Imran said, “O my Master! Will you let me know about the Creator? If He is One, there is nothing other than Him and there is nothing with Him, has He not changed (His Essence) through creating the creatures?”Al-Ridha (s) told him, “He is Eternal. The Honorable the Exalted does not change due to creating the creatures. However, the creatures change through the changes which He exerts upon them.”Imran asked, “O my Master! With what have we recognized Him?”Al-Ridha (s) said, “With something other than Him.” Imran asked, “What is something other than Him?” Al-Ridha (s) said, “His Volition, His Name, His Attribute, and the like which are all originated, created and managed (by Him).”Imran said, “O my Master! Then what is He?” The Imam (s) replied, “He is Light. That means that He guides His creatures from among the people of the heavens and the Earth. You have no rights incumbent upon me more than my professing His Unity to you.”Imran said, “O my Master! Was He not silent before creating the creatures and then He spoke?”Al-Ridha (s) said, “Silence does not exist unless there is some utterance before it. An example of this is that it is not said that the lamp is silent and does not utter; nor is it said that the lamp shines implying that it wants to do something to us. The light shining from the lamp is not considered to be the act of the lamp. It is not something separate from the lamp. Therefore, when it is illuminating us we say that it was lit for us by which we found our way around. Through this example you can find what you are after and become enlightened in your affairs.”Imran said, “O my Master! I thought that the Ever-Being is changed in His own Essence by His action of creating the creatures.”Al-Ridha (s) said, “O Imran! What you said that the Ever-Being will change in one or another way (by acting) and that this change will affect His own Essence, and thereby changes Him. O Imran! Have you ever seen that the changes in fire change it? Have you ever seen heat burn itself? Have you ever seen an eye see itself?” Imran said, “No I have not. O my Master! Will you let me know whether He is in the creatures or the creatures are in Him?” Al-Ridha (s) said, “O Imran! He is Exalted and above all that. He is not in the creatures; nor are the creatures in Him. He is High above that. I will teach you what you do not know. There is no strength save in God. Tell me about the mirror: are you in it or is it in you? O Imran! If neither one of you is in the other, then by what thing do you reason that you can see your own reflection in it?”Imran said, “Through the light between me and the mirror.” Al-Ridha (s) said, “Can you see more of that light in the mirror than what you see in your own eyes?”He answered, “Yes.” Al-Ridha (s) said, “Then show it to us!” It was then that the man was too baffled to say a word. The Imam (s) said, “I do not see the light, except leading you and the mirror to come to know each other without being in either one of you. There are many other suchexamples which the ignorant simply cannot comprehend. God is the highest such example.”Then the Imam (s) turned to Al-Ma’mun and told him, “Now it is time to pray.”Imran said, “O my Master! Do not interrupt my questions since I am feeling inclined towards you in my heart.”Al-Ridha (s) said, “We will pray and come back.”Then the Imam (s) stood up. Al-Ma’mun got up, too. Then Al-Ridha (s) prayed inside and the people prayed outside led by Muhammad ibn Ja’far. Then the Imam (s) came out, returned to the meeting, called out to Imran and said, “O Imran! Ask your questions.”Imran said, “O my Master! Will you let me know whether the Unity of the Honorable the Exalted God is perceived through reality or through description?”Al-Ridha (s) said, “Certainly, God is the Only Initiator, and the first Ever-Being. He has always been One without anything to accompany Him. He is One and there are no seconds for Him. He is neither definite nor indefinite. He is neither decisive nor allegorical. He is neither mentioned nor forgotten. He is not a thing such that a name of things can fit Him. There is no time for the beginning of His Being. And there is no time until which only He will last. He has not been standing upon anything else, nor will He be standing upon anything. There is nothing up until which He is. There is nothing on which He leans. He had all these attributes before creating anything when there was nothing but Him. Whatever you attribute to Him will be originated attributes which are only means for understanding Him, which anyone possessing understanding can comprehend.Know that innovation, volition, and will have the same meaning with different names. His foremost innovation, will and volition were the letters which He established as the origin of everything, the evidence for all perceived things, and the separator for all vague things. Everything was separated by these letters: things such as the name of right and wrong, action and object, meaning and meaningless. All affairs were run based on them. He did not establish any limited meaning for them other than what they were themselves when He originated the letters. He didnot establish for them any existence other than themselves since they were originated via innovation. Here Light is God’s first deed: The deed of God who is the Light of the heavens and the Earth Himself. It was through that deed which the letters became action. It is the letters upon which speech is based. Expressions are all from the Honorable the Exalted God who taught them to His creatures. There are thirty-three letters. Twenty-eight of them are the letters on which the Arabic language is based. Twenty-two of the twenty-eight letters show the letters of the Assyrian and Hebrew languages. Five of them were separated and are in the rest of the languages of non-Arabs in the regions. These are the five letters which were separated from the twenty-eight letters. Therefore, there are thirty-three letters. It is not permissible to mention more about them than what we have mentioned regarding these five letters which were separated. He then established the letters after counting them and numbering them as His own deed. An example of this is in the Honorable the Exalted God’s words, ‘We but say the word, ‘Be’, and it is.’ Here ‘be’ refers to God’s Creation, and ‘what is created’ refers to the creature. Thus the first Creation by the Honorable the Exalted God was innovation which has neither any weight nor any movement. It is neither heard nor does it have any color. It is intangible. And the second thing that was created are the letters which neither have any weight nor any color. They are neither heard nor described. They are not seeable. The third creature includes all the various kinds of things which are perceptible, tangible, tasteable, and seeable. The Blessed the Sublime God existed before innovation as there has been nothing before the Honorable the Exalted God, and nothing with him. Innovation was created before the letters were created, and the letters do not indicate anything other than themselves.”Al-Ma’mun asked, “How come they do not indicate anything other than themselves?”Al-Ridha (s) said, “Surely, the Blessed the Sublime God never combines any of them together unless to mean something. When He combines several letters together, say four, five, and six or more, He uses them to originate a new meaning which did not exist before.”Imran asked, “How can we understand this better?”Al-Ridha (s) said, “This is how it can be understood. When you only want to refer to the letters and not anything else, you mention them one by one and say, a b c d e f g etc. Here you find no meaning in them other than themselves. But when you put several letters together you construct names and attributes for a meaning which you have in mind. They will now demonstrate the meaning for which they were intended. Did you understand this?”Imran said, “Yes.”Al-Ridha (s) said, “Know that an attribute cannot be without what it describes. Also a name cannot be without a meaning. A limit cannot be without a limited. All attributes and names indicate perfection and existence. They do not indicate encompassment, as the limits do. Limits make squares, make triangles, and make hexagons. Indeed the recognition of the Honorable the Exalted God is perceived by attributes and names, not by limits such as length, width, smallness, largeness, color, weight, and the like. No such limits are applicable to the Exalted the All-Holy God, so that His creatures could recognize Him by recognizing themselves. This is certain as I said, but the Honorable the Exalted God’s attributes prove Him. He can be understood through His Names. We can argue about His Existence by referring to the existence of His creatures. A true seeker does not need to see Him with his own eyes, or hear Him with his own ears, or touch Him with his own hands, or encompass Him with his own heart. Were it not the case that His attributes proved Him - Exalted is His Praise - and His Names denoted Him, it was not possible for the taught knowledge of the creatures to perceive Him. Then the creatures would have worshipped His Names and Attributes instead of His Meaning. Were it any different, the Only Worshipped One would have been other than God since God’s Names and Attributes are other than Him. Imran! Did you understand?” Imran said, “Yes, my Master. Please tell me more.”Al-Ridha (s) said, “Beware of the sayings of the ignorant people from among those whose hearts are blind and are at a loss - those who claim that the Exalted the All-Holy God is present in the Hereafter for the Reckoning concerning rewards and punishments, but He is not present in this world for the acts of obedience and hope. If it were that the Honorable the Exalted God’s presence was a source of His beingdefective in this world, He would not be present in the Hereafter either. However, these people have gone astray, have become blind, and deaf toward the truth regarding what they do not know. That is according to the Words of the Honorable the Exalted God, ‘But those who were blind in this world, will be blind in the Hereafter, and most astray from the Path.’ What is meant by blindness here is blindness regarding existing realities. Intellectuals know that reasoning about what exists in the Hereafter is only possible through what exists in this world. Whoever tries to adopt knowledge of that world based upon his own personal views, and seek its existence or tries to perceive it through his own soul, and not through anything else would only get more distant from the facts about that world. That is because the Honorable the Exalted God has entrusted the knowledge of that world to an especial group of people who think, know and understand.”Imran asked, “Is innovation a created being or not?” Imam Al-Ridha (s) answered, “It is a still Creation which cannot be perceived through stillness. It is a created being since it has been created. And it is the Sublime God who has originated it. Thus it has become a creature. In other words, there only exist the Honorable the Exalted God and His creatures. There exists no third thing in between, and there is no third thing other than them. Whatever the Honorable the Exalted God creates does not disobey from being His creature. What is created is either still, moving, different, harmonious, known, or ambiguous. Whatever is bounded is the Honorable the Exalted God’s creature.Moreover, know that all the things which the senses find for you are meanings perceived by the senses, and every sense demonstrates what the Honorable the Exalted God has placed in its perception, and the heart understands all of that. Know that the One who is Ever-Standing without any ordination or bounds created creatures ordained by bounds and ordination. What He created were two creatures: the ordination and the ordained. Neither one had any color, weight or taste. He established one as the means of perceiving the other and made them such that they could be perceived on their own. He did not create anything which could stand alone relying only on itself so as to provide a means for arguing about and proving His own existence.Thus the Blessed the Sublime God is One and Only. There is no second one to support Him in order to enable Him to stand, or to assist Him or protect Him. However, the creatures support one another through the permission and will of the Sublime God. People have differences of opinion over this subject to the extent that they have gone astray, become perplexed, and seek salvation from darkness by means of darkness through describing the Sublime God using their own qualities. In this way, they have become very far away from the truth. Had they described the Honorable the Exalted God using His own Attributes, and described the creatures with the qualities of the creatures, they would have spoken through understanding and certitude and would not have come up with so many differences of opinion over Him. Since they sought that which would perplex them, and get entrapped, they became confused. God guides whomever He wills to the straight path.”Imran said, “O my Master! I bear witness that He is just as you have described. However, I still have one more question to ask.” The Imam (s) said, “Ask whatever you wish to ask.”Imran said, “I want to ask you what the All-Wise (God) is contained in. Has anything encompassed Him? Does He change from one state to another state? Is He in need of anything?”Al-Ridha (s) said, “O Imran! I will tell you, so understandWhom you have questioned about. He is the most ambiguous issues which the creatures face. As for those who are deficient in understanding, they do not recognize Him. As for those who are just and can reason, they are not incapable of understanding Him. First of all, if He had created the creatures due to needing them, then it would be proper to say that He changes His Location to the location of what He creates because of His need for them. However, the Honorable the Exalted God has not created anything out of need. He is always stable. Neither is He on something, or something is on Him. However, it is the creatures which hold each other, enter into one another, and leave one another. As for the Great and All-Holy God, He holds all of that by His Might. He does not enter anything and does not leave anything. Its preservation does not tire Him, nor is He incapable of holding it. None of the creatures knows how that is, except for the Honorable the Exalted God and His Messengers, the People who know His Secrets, those whorun the Affairs, and His Guardians who carry out His Laws. God Himself has informed them about it. In fact, His command is like the twinkling of an eye. If He wills a thing, He only says to it be, ‘We but say the word, ‘Be’, and it is.’ according to His intent and will. Nothing that He has created is closer to Him than any other thing. O Imran! Have you understood?” Imran said, “Yes, my Master. I understood. I bear witness that the Sublime God is as you described Him to be, He is One. I also witness that Muhammad (s) - his servant - is appointed to guide and lead to the right religion.” He then faced the Qibla and fell into prostration.Al-Hassan ibn Muhammad al-Nawfali said, “When the other rhetoricians heard what Imran al-Sabee - who was very hard to defeat in arguments and no one had ever defeated him before in arguments - none of them dared approach Al-Ridha (s), and they asked him no more questions. Slowly the sun set. Then Al-Ma’mun and Al-Ridha (s) stood up, went inside and the people left.I was sitting along with some of my friends when Muhammad ibn Ja’far called me in. I went to see him.He told me, “O Nawfali! Did you see what your friend (the Imam (s)) did?” Al-Nawfali replied, “By God! No. I did not think that Ali ibn Musa Al-Ridha (s) could plumb such depths. I did not know that him in this way. He never spoke about theology in Medina and theologians never gathered around him.” I said, “The pilgrims come to him and ask him about the lawful and the unlawful and he answers them. Sometimes rhetoricians come to him and argue with him, and he plunges into theology.”Muhammad ibn Ja’far said, “O Aba Muhammad! I fear that this man (i.e. Al-Ma’mun) will envy him, poison him or injure him. So advise him to refrain from these things.”Al-Nawfali added, “I said, ‘He will not listen to me. This man (Al-Ma’mun) only wants to test him to see whether he possesses any of the knowledge of his forefathers (s).’He told me, “Tell him that his uncle does not like him to do such things and wishes him to quit doing these things.” When we returned to Al-Ridha’s (s) house I related to the Imam (s) the message from his uncle. Then the Imam (s) smiled and said, “May God protect my uncle. I knowhim well. Why is he upset? O servant! Go to Imran al-Sa’ebi and bring him here.”I said, “May I be your ransom! I know where he is. He is with some of the Shiite brethren.” The Imam (s) said, “Don’t worry. Take a horse for him to ride on and bring him here.” I went and brought Imran. The Imam (s) welcomed him and asked for a robe of honor which he (s) put on Imran. The Imam also gave him a horse and asked for ten-thousand Dinars which he (s) donated to Imran.Imran said, “May I be your ransom! You have followed in the footsteps of your grandfather - the Commander of the Faithful (s).” The Imam (s) said, “We prefer this.” Then the Imam (s) ordered dinner and had me sit on his right side and had Imran sit on his left side. After eating dinner, the Imam (s) told Imran, “Go now and come back in the morning. Then I will give you food from Medina.”From then on many people came to Imran to have a debate. He used to respond to their arguments and disprove them until they left. Al-Ma’mun granted him ten thousand Dirhams. Al-Fadhl gave him some money, too. Then he appointed him as the director over the alms in (the city of) Balkh where he attained much good.

`Let them enter my presence.’ So he did, and then received them with hospitality. He then introduced himself to them saying, `Verily, I have gathered you for something good, and want you to debate with this cousin of mine from medina, who has come tome. Come to me tomorrow morning. None of you should be absent.” They said: “O Commander of the Faithful! We listen and obey you. Allah willing,, we will be here first thing in the morning.” Al-Hasan ibn Muhammad al-Nawfali said: “We were talking to Abu al-Hasan (AS) when Yasir, the servant who was in the charge of serving Abu al-Hasan, entered and told him, O My Master! Verily, the Commander of the Faithful expressed his greetings to you and said: `May you brother be your ransom! Verily, the rhetoricians, scholars from all religions, and theologians from all nations have all gathered together here with me. Would you like to come to us and have a discussion with them? If you do not wish to do so, do not bother yourself. However, if you prefer, we can come visit you. Abu al-Hasan (AS) then said: “Express my greetings to him, and tell him that I understand what you intend. Allah willing, I will come to you myself tomorrow morning.” Al-Hasan ibn Muhammad al-Nawfali said; “When Yasir went out, the Imam (AS) turned to me and said: “O Nawfali! You are an Iraqi, and an Iraqi’s heart is not hard. So, what do you think? What is your cousin’s intention in setting up a meeting between me and the pagans and rhetoricians?” Al-Nawfali says I answered, “May I be yoiur ransom! He intends to test you, and wants to know how much knowledge you possess. Verily, he has based his assumption on shaky grounds. By Allah, what he has set up is evil.” The Imam (AS) asked, “And what has he set up?” Al-nawfali said: The heretics and the theologians are different from the learned. That is because a learned does not deny the undeniable, whereas rhetoricians, theologians, and polytheists are people who deny things and try to prove what is not true. If you argue with them and tell them that God is One, they would say, `Confirm His Oneness.’ And if you say that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, they would say, `Prove his Prophethood.’ May I be your ransom! They confuse you and make you disprove your own proofs. They continue to falsify until you back off. Beware of them! May I be your ransom!” Al-Nawfali added, “The Imam (AS) then smiled, and told me, `O Nawfali! Do you fear that they will defeat my arguments?” Al-Nawfali said: `No, by Allah! I have no worries about you. Allah willing, I hope that Allah will make you victorious over them!’ The Imam (AS) asked again, `O Nawfali! Would you like to know when Al-Ma`mun will regret his actions?” He answered, `Yes.’ The Imam (AS) said: When he hears me argue with the people of the Torah quoting their own Torah, with the people of the Gospel quoting their own Gospel with the people of the Psalms quoting their own Psalms, with the Sabians in their own Hebrew language, with the Zoroastrian priests in their own Persian, with the Romans in their own Latin, and with the rhetoricians using their very own languages. So, if I close the avenues of argument in the face of each arguing party and disprove his claim, making him renounce his statement from its onset and referring to my own statement, then al-Ma`mun will realize that he has not achieved what he aspires to achieve. It is then that he will feel regret. And there is no power and no strength save in Allah, the Most High, the Most Great. On the following day, al-Fadl ibn Sahl went in a hurry to see the Imam (AS) and told him, “May I be your ransom! Your cousin is waiting for you. The people have gathered together. When will you go to him?” Al-Rida (AS) told him, “You go ahead, Allah willing, I will come to you.” Then he made ablutions for praying, drank some sawiq, quenched us from it as well, and then we all left. When we reached al-Ma`mun’s place, the meeting was full of people. Muhammad ibn Ja`far, some of the Talibites and Hashimites, and the Commanders of the Army were among those present. When al-Rida (AS) entered, al-Ma`mun stood up, Muhammad ibn Ja`far, and all the Hashimites who were present there, also stood up for him. The Imam (AS) and alMa`mun sat down while all the people were still standing, until al-Ma`mun ordered them to sit down. Al-Ma`mun talked to the Imam for a while. Then al-Ma`mun turned to the Catholicos and said: “O Catholicos! This is my cousin `Ali ibn Musa ibn Ja`far (AS). He is one of the children of Fatimah (AS), the daughter of our Prophet (SA), and `Ali ibn Abu Talib (AS). I would like you to debate with him, but be fair with him.” The Catholicos said: “O Commander of the Faithful! How can I argue with a man who argues with me using a Book I reject, and who believes in a prophet who I do not believe in? Al-Rida (AS) told him, “O Christian! Will you accept to debate with me if I present proofs from your Gospel?” The Catholicos answered, “How could I reject the words of the Bible? I swear to God that I will accept your arguments, even if I dislike them.” Al-Rida (AS) told him, “Ask whatever you wish, and you shall receive an answer.” The Catholicos said: “what is your opinion about the Prophethood of Jesus and his Book? Do you deny either one of them?” Al-Rida (AS) said: I accept the Prophethood of Jesus. I accept his Book. And I accept what he taught his nation, and what was accepted by his disciples. However, I reject the Prophethood of any Jesus who has not professed the Prophethood of Muhammad, his Book, and what he taught his people. The Catholicos said: “Two witnesses are required to validate a testimony. Is that correct?” The Imam (AS) said: “Yes.” The Catholicos Archbishop said: “if that is the case, I challenge you to select who witnesses who are neither Muslim nor Christina, but who do not reject the Prophethood of Muhammad (SA). Likewise, you may ask a similar question from people other than our own nation.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “O Christian! Now you are speaking fairly. Do you accept a just person who was given preference (over others) by the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary?” The Catholicos replied, “Who is the just one? Name him for me.” The Imam (AS) said: “What is your opinion of John al-Daylami?” The Catholicos responded, “Bravo! Bravo! You have mentioned the person most loved by the Messiah.” The Imam (AS) said: Then I ask you to swear by God, and tell me whether or not the Bible says that John said: `The Messiah has informed me of the religion of Muhammad, the Arab, and has given me the glad tidings about him who will be (a Prophet) after him. Therefore, I have the glad tidings of him to the disciples and they believed in him.’ The Catholicos said: “John did quote this from the Messiah. He did give the glad tidings concerning the coming of a Prophet, his Household, and his Successor. He has not specified when this would happen, and has not named them so that we could identify them.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “If we bring someone here who can recite the Bible, and he recites to you Muhammad’s name, his Household, and his nation, will you believe in him?” The Catholicos replied, “What a sound suggestion!” Al-Rida (AS) turned to Nestus the Roman, and asked hi, “have you memorized the third Book of the Bible?” He answered, “I have thoroughly memorized it.” Then the Imam (AS) addressed the Catholicos and said: “Can you recite the Bible?” The Catholicos said: “Yes, of course.” The Imam said: “Then I will recite to you (some verses from) the third Book. If Muhammad (SA), his Household (AS), and his nation were mentioned in it, then bear witness! And if they have not been mentioned therein, then do not bear witness.” Then the Imam (AS) recited to him some of the verses of the third Book until he reached the reference to the Prophet. He stopped reading and said: “O Christina! I challenge you to swear by the Messiah and his mother. Have you realized that I have knowledge of the Bible?” He replied, “yes.” The Imam (AS) recited to him some verses from the third Book concerning the reference to the Prophet, his Household, and his nation. Then the Imam (AS) said: O Christian! What do you think now? These are the words of Jesus, the son of Mary. If you deny what the Bible says, then you will deny both the Jesus and Moses. If you deny them, then it is incumbent to kill you for blasphemy against your Lord, your Prophet, and your Book. The Catholicos said: “I do not deny the clear things in the Bible. On the contrary, I profess them.” The Imam (AS) asked others who were present, “Bear witness to his profession.” Then the Imam (AS) said to the Catholicos, “O Catholicos! Ask me any other question that you wish to ask.” The Catholicos asked, “What about the disciples of Jesus, the son of Mary? How many were they? And tell me about the scholars of the Bible. How many were then?” Al-Rida (AS) said: You have found the expert! As for (the number of) the disciples, they were twelve men. The best and the most learned of them was Aluqas (Luke). As for the (number of) Christian scholars, there were three men: John (Yohanna), `the great’ at Aj, John at Qirqisiya, and john al-Daylami at Zijan, who made reference to Prophet Muhammad, his Household and his nation. It is he who gave glad tidings to the nation of Jesus and the Children of Israel about him. The Imam (AS) added, “O Christian! By Allah, we believe in Jesus, who believed in Muhammad. We have nothing against Jesus except for his weakness and the paucity of his fasting and prayer. The Catholicos replied, “By Allah, you have corrupted your knowledge! You affair has become weak! I though that you were the most learned of the Muslims!” Al-Rida (AS) asked, “Why?” The Catholicos said: “You said that Jesus was weak in fasting and prayer when, in fact, he never broke fasting during the day, and never slept during the night. He always fasted during the day, and he always prayed throughout the night.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “For whom did he fast and pray?” The Catholicos did no answer, not knowing what to say. Al-Rida (AS) said: “I want to ask you a question.” The Catholicos said: “Ask. I will respond if I have the answer.” Al-Rida (AS) asked, “Why do you deny that Jesus gave life to the dead with the permission of Allah, the Mighty and High?” The Catholicos said: “I deny that because whoever is able to give life to the dead, and to heal the blind and the leprous is a Lord worthy of service.” Al-Rida (AS) said: Very well. However, Elijah [al-Yasa’] performed the same miracles as Jesus did. He walked on water, gave life to the dead, and healed the blind and the leprous Why did his nation not adopt him as a Lord? Why did no anyone worship him as a god other than Allah? The Prophet Ezekiel [Hizqil] did just what Jesus did. He gave life to thirty-five men sixty years after their death. Then the Imam (AS) turned towards the Head of the Rabbis and asked him, O Head of the Rabbis! Do you find the following about some of the youth of the Children of Israel in the Torah? When Nebuchadnezzar [Bakht Nasr] invaded Jerusalem, he enslaved the Children of Israel and brought them to Babylonia. Then Allah, the Mighty and High, sent al-Yasa` from them, and he gave life to them. This is in the Torah. No one but an unbeliever of you would deny it. The Head of the Rabbis said: “I have heard about this and know it.” The Imam (AS) said: “You have spoken the truth.” Then the Imam (AS) said: “O Jewish man! See if I read from the following Book of the Torah properly.” The Imam (AS) then recited some of the verses from the Torah for us. The Jewish man, who was surprised at hearing how the Imam (AS) was reciting the Torah, kept moving his body. He then faced the Christian and asked, “O Christian! Were these words revealed before Jesus or were they revealed after him?” The Catholicos answe3red, “They were revealed before him.” Al-Rida (AS) said: The people of Quraysh gathered around the Messenger of Allah (SA) and asked him to give life to their dead. He sent along `Ali ibn Abu Talib (AS) with them and told him, “go to the cemetery, and loudly call the people about whom they have asked, say, “O soand-so, so-and-so, etc.” Tell them, “Allah’s Messenger Muhammad says, `Rise with the permission of Allah, the Mighty and High’ Then they all rose and brushed off the dust from their heads.” The people from the tribe of Quraysh walked towards them and asked them about their affairs. They told them that Muhammad (SA) has been raised as a Prophet. The people who had risen from the dead said: “We wish we had lived in his age and believed in him!” He healed the blind, the leprous, and the insane. He spoke with the beasts, the birds, the jinn, and demons. Still, we do not adopt him as a Lord other than Allah, the Mighty and High. We do not deny the miracles of the prophets. Since you have adopted Jesus as a Lord, why do you not adopt al-Yasa` and Hizqil as lords, for they performed the same miracles as did Jesus, the son of Mary, such as giving life to the dead? Moreover, thousands of the Children of Israel left their homeland in fear of death due to the plague. Allah made them die immediately. The people of the village build a fence around them, and left them there until their bones decayed. One of the prophets of the Children of Israel passed by, and he was amazed when he saw so may decayed bones. Allah, the Mighty and high, revealed to him, “Would you like Me to bring them to life so that you can admonish them?” The Prophet said: “Yes, O Lord!” Then Allah, the Mighty and High, revealed to him, “Then call them.” He said: “O decayed bones! Rise with Allah’s permission.” They all rose while brushing off the dust from their heads.” Likewise when Abraham (AS), the friend of the Most Compassionate, took the birds, cut them into pieces, and put each piece on a mountain top. He called out to them and they came towards him. Also Moses (AS) the son of `Imran, his companions, and seventy of the men whom he had chosen went to the mountain. They told Moses, “You have seen Allah. So show Him to us like you have seen Him.” Moses told them, “I have not seen Him.” But they said: “We shall never believe in you until we see Allah manifestly.” A thunderbolt struck them, and burned them all up. Only Moses survived. Moses said: `O my Lord! I chose seventy men from among the Children of Israel and brought them to the mountain. Shall I return by myself? How shall my people believe what I must tell them? If You desired You could have destroyed al of us long before. Would you destroy us all for the deeds of the foolish ones among us?’ Then Allah, the Mighty and High, gave life to them after their death. You cannot deny all these things which I have told you, for the Torah, the Bible, the Psalms and the Qur’an have mentioned them. If all those who gave life to the dead, healed the blind, the leprous and the mad, were adopted as lords other than Allah, then you should also adopt them as Lords. O Christians! What is your opinion? The Catholicos said: “Yes. You are right. There is no god but Allah.” Then the Imam (AS) turned towards the Head of Rabbis and told him. O Jewish man! Turn to me. Swear to me by the Ten Commandments which were sent down to Moses, the son of `Imran, that the following statement about the Prophet Muhammad (SA) and his nation is not found in the Torah: When the people of the last nation, who are followers of the Rider of the Camel, who glorifies the Lord enormously, new glorification in new churches (implying mosques), then let the Children of Israel flee towards them and their dominion so that their hearts may be tranquil, since there will be swords in their hands with which they will take revenge on the unbelievers around the globe. Is this not written in the Torah? The Head of the Rabbis said; “Yes, we have found that written in this manner.” Then the Imam (AS) asked the Catholicos, “O Christian! How is your knowledge of the Book of Sha`ya? He answered, “I know it letter by letter.” Then the Imam asked them both, “Do you know that the following statement is made by him, `O people! I have seen the picture of the Donkey. He was wearing gowns of light. And I have seen the Rider of the Camel, who is as bright as the moon.’” They answered, “Verily, Sha`1ya did say that!” Al-Rida (AS) said: O Christian! Do you know that Jesus said: `I am going to my Lord and your Lord, and the Paraclete [farqilita] is coming who shall testify to my truth just as I testified for him, and he shall explain everything to you, and he shall be the one to expose all the sins of nations, and he shall be the one to smash down the pillars of unbelief?’ The Catholicos said: “We accept whatever you cite from the Bible.” The Imam said: “O Catholicos! Have you found this in the Bible?” The Catholicos said: “Yes.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “O Catholicos, when you lost the first Bible, with whom did you find it?” The Catholicos said: “We only lost the Bible for one day. Then we found it fresh (in its original state). John and Matthew brought it back to us.” Al-Rida (AS) asked him, How little you know of the Bible and its scholars! If what you say is correct, then why do you have so many disputes between yourselves regarding the Bible? The source of controversy lies in the Bible which you have in your hands today. Had it been the same as the fist Bible, there would be no dispute over it, However, I will prove this for you myself. Know that when the first Bible was lost, the Christians gathered around their scholars and said to them, `Jesus the son of Mary has been killed, and we have lost the Bible. You are the scholars. What do you have?’ Luke, Mark and John told them, `We have memorized the Bible. Do not worry about it. Do not forsake the churches. We will recite each Gospel of the Bible for you on each Sunday until we put it all together.’ Then Luke, Mark, John and Matthew gathered together and put together this Bible after you had lost the first one. These four students were of the first students. Did you know that?” The Catholicos said: “I did not know this before. Now I have learned it from you due to your noble knowledge of the Bible. I heard things from you which I knew deep down, and which my heart acknowledges to be the truth. As a result, I have grown in understanding.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “Do you accept the evidence I have presented?” The Catholicos said: “I completely accept the evidence as correct, and bear witness that it is true.” Al-Rida (AS) then told al-Ma’mun, his family, and the others who were present, “Be witnesses to this.” They said: “We bear witness.” Then the Imam (AS) told the Catholicos, I swear by the Son and his Mother to tell us whether you know that Matthew said the following, `The Messiah is the son of David, the son of Abraham, the son of Issac, the son of Jacob, the son of Yehuda, the son of Khadrun.’ Mark said the following regarding the lineage of Jesus, the son of Mary, `He is Allah’s Word placed in the human body. So it turned into the human form.’ Moreover, Luke said: `Jesus the son of Mary and his mother wee humans made of flesh and blood. Then the Holy Sprit entered into them.’ Testify as well that Jesus said the following about himself, `O disciples! I will tell you the truth. No one will ascend to Heaven, except for him who descends there from, except for the Rider of the Camel, the Seal of the Prophets, for he will ascend to the Heavens, and then will descend therefrom. What do you have to say about that? The Catholicos said; “These are the words of Jesus. We do not deny them.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “If so, what do you say about the testimonies of Luke, Mark and Matthew regarding Jesus and the lineage they attributed to him?” The Catholicos said: “They ascribed likes to Jesus.” Al-Rida (A) said: “O people! Did he not just bear witness that they (Luke, Mark and Matthew) are the Scholars of the Bible, and what they said was the truth?” The Catholicos said: “O Scholar of the Muslims! I would like you to excuse me from discussing about these men.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “Fine, I will excuse you from that, O Christian! Ask me whatever you wish to ask.” The Catholicos said: “Let someone else ask you questions. By Jesus, I did not think that there was a scholar like you among the Muslims.” Al-Rida (AS) turned towards the Head of the Rabbis and said: “Will you ask me questions or should I ask?” The Head of the Rabbis said: “I will ask. However, I will not accept any proofs from you except those form the Torah, the Bible, the Psalms of David, or the Scriptures of Abraham and Moses.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “Do not accept any of my proofs unless they are from the Torah as expressed by Moses, the son of `Imran, the Bible as expressed by Jesus, the son of Mary, or the Psalms of David as expressed by David.” The Head of the Rabbis said: “How can you prove the Prophethood of Muhammad (SA)?” Al-Rida (AS) said: “Moses, the son of `Imran, Jesus, the son of Mary and David, the Vicegerent of Allah on the Earth, have testified to his Prophethood.” The Head of the Rabbis said: “Provide evidence of the testimony of Moses, the son of `Imran.” Al-Rida (AS) told him, O Jewish man! Do you know that Moses said the following to the Children of Israel, `A prophet will come to you fro among your brethren. Believe in him, and obey him.’ Do you know that the Children of Israel have no brethren other than the Children of Ishamel? Do you know about the ties of kinship between Israel and Ishmael and the relationship that existed between them from the past through Abraham? The Head of the Rabbis said: “These are the words of Moses. I do not deny them.” Al-Rida (AS) asked him, “Has any Prophet other than Muhammad (SA) come from among the brethren of the Children of Israel?” He replied, “No.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “Is this not correct in your opinion?” The Head of the Rabbis said: “Yes, but I want you to prove its correctness from the Torah.” Al-Rida (AS) asked him, “Do you deny that the Toray says the following to you? `There came light from Mount Sinai. Light shined upon us from Mount Sa`ir and it became apparent to us from Mount Faran.’” The Head of the Rabbis said: “I am familiar with these words, but I do not know what they mean.” Al-Rida (AS) said: I will inform you about them. What is meant when it says `There came light from Mount Sinai` is a reference to the revelations of Allah, the Blessed and Exalted, to Moses on mount Sinai. And what is meant when it says, `Light shined upon us from Mount Sa`ir’ is a reference to the mountain upon which Allah, the Mighty and High, sent revelations of Jesus, the son of Mary. Jesus was on that mountain. And what is meant when it says, `and it became apparent to us from Mount Faran.’ Faran is a mountain that is one day away from Mecca. As you and your friends said: the Prophet Sha`ya has said in the Torah that `I have seen the picture of the Rider of the Donkey. He was wearing gowns of light. And I have seen the Rider of the Camel, who is as bright as the moon.’ Who is the Rider of the Donkey? Who is the Rider of the Camel? The Head of the Rabbis said: “I do not know who they are.” The Imam (AS) said: “The Rider of the Donkey is Jesus, and the Rider of the Camel is Muhammad (SA). Do you deny that this is from the Torah?” The Head of the Rabbis said: “No, I do not deny that.” Then al-Rida (AS) said: “Do you know the Prophet Hayqua?” The Head of the Rabbis said: “Yes, I know him.” The Imam (AS) said: He said the following which your Book has also stated, `Allah brought down the Bayan from Mount Faran. The heavens are filled with the praise of Ahmad and his nation. He will lead his troops at sea just as he carries them on land. He will bring us a new Book after the destruction of the Holy House (in Jerusalem).’ Did you know the, and do you believe in it? The Head of the Rabbis said: “In fact, the Prophet Hayquq has said this. I will not deny his words. Al-Rida (AS) said: David said in his Psalms which you have also read, `O my Allah! Appoint him who will establish the practice after the cessation (of the prophets). Did you know of any prophet other than Muhammad (SA) who has established the practice after the end of the period of prophecy? The Head of the Rabbis said: “this is what David said. We do not deny it. However, he was referring to Jesus, as it was with him that the age of prophecy came to a close.” Al-Rida (AS) told him, You are wrong. In fact, Jesus endorsed the practices [sunah] of the Torah until Allah raised him up to Himself. It is written in the Bible. The son of the pious woman will go, and the Paraclete will come after him. It is he who will preserve the bonds, explain everything to you, and testify to my truth just as I testified for him. I have brought you the examples, and he will bring you the interpretations. Do you believe that this statement is in the Bible? The Head of the Rabbis said: “Yes.” Al-Rida (AS) replied to him, “O the Head of the Rabbis! I want to ask you about your Prophet Moses.” The Jewish man said: “He brought miracles which the prophets before him had not brought.” The Imam (AS) asked, “Could you give me an example?” The Head of the Rabbis replied, “He split the sea, turned the cane into a slithering serpent, made springs gush from stones, showed his hand white and shining to the onlookers, and other signs the like of which other creatures were unable to bring.” Al-Rida (AS) replied to him, “You are right. They are proofs of his Prophethood. He brought the like of which other creatures were unable to brig. Is it obligatory on you to believe in whoever claims Prophethood, and performs something which all other creatures are unable to perform?” The head of the Rabbis said: “No, since there is no one like Moses considering his position near his Lord and his closeness to Him. It is not incumbent upon us to profess the Prophethood of whoever claims it, unless he brings us miracles similar to those brought by Moses. The Imam (AS) said: Then how come you admit the Prophethood of the other prophets who preceded Moses who did not split the sea; nor did they make twelve springs gush forth from the stones, nor did they show a white shining hand as Moses did, nor did they turn the came into a slithering serpent. The Jewish man replied: I told you that if they performed miracles as evidence for their Prophethood which all other creatures were unable to perform, and if they brought something the like of which Moses had brought, or they followed what Moses had brought, then it is incumbent upon us to believe in them. Al-Rida (AS) replied to him, “O Head of the Rabbis! What has prevented you from professing (the Prophethood of) Jesus, the son of Mary? Jesus brought the dead to life, healed the blind and the leprous, made birds formed of clay and breathed life into them with Allah’s permission.’” The Head of the Rabbis said: “It is said that he did that but we did not see it.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “Have you seen the miracles performed by Moses? Have you not received the news by way of Moses’s closest trustworthy companions who said he did them?” The Head of the Rabbis said: “Yes. That is so.” The Imam (AS) said: “Well. The news about the miracles of Jesus, the son of Mary, have reached you in a similar fashion. Why then did you acknowledge Moses and believe in him, but you did not believe in Jesus?” The Head of the Rabbis did not answer. Al-Rida (AS) said: The same is true about Muhammad (SA) and his miracles. The same is true about any other prophet (AS) appointed by Allah. One of the miracles of Muhammad (SA) was that he was a poor hired shepherd. He had not been taught anything. He did not have any teachers. However, the Qur’an which he brought contains the stories of the prophets and the associated news letter by letter. It has narrated news of the past, and the things to come in the future all the way up until the Day of Resurrection. The Qur’an provided information about what people did in hiding or in their homes. The Prophet brought innumerable miracles. The Head of the Rabbis said: “Neither the account about Jesus nor that about Muhammad (SA) is considered correct by us. It is not permissible to admit their Prophethood through what is not correct.” Al-Rida (AS said: “Has the witness who testified for Jesus (AS) and Muhammad (SA) then given false testimony?” The Head of the Rabbis did not answer him. Then the Imam (AS) called the Zoroastrian High Priest. Al-Rida (AS) said to him, “Let me know about Zoroaster who considered himself to be a prophet. What is your proof of his Prophethood?” The Zoroastrian High Priest said: “He performed miracles which no one ever had performed before him. Of course, I have not seen him, but the stories of our ancestors tell us that he made legitimate for us things which others had not made legitimate. Therefore, we follow him.” The Imam (AS) asked, “You believed in the stories which came to you about him, so you followed him, did you not?” He replied, “Yes.” The Imam (AS) said: This is the case with all other nations. Stories came to them about what the prophets had accomplished, and what Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad (AS) had all brought to them. So why did you not believe in any of these prophets, having believed in Zoroaster through the stories that came to you about him saying that he brought forth what others did not? The Zoroastrian High Priest froze in his place. Then al-Rida (AS) said: “O people! If any of you is opposed to Islam, and wants to ask me any questions, then they should ask me and not be shy.” `Imran the Sabian, who was an expert in theology, stood up and said: O Scholar of the people! I would not have asked you any questions if you had not invited me to ask. I have been to Kufa, Basra, Syria, and Algeria. There I have met many theologians. However, none of them have been able to establish for me the proof that there is One who has no second other than Him, and that he is One Sole Being. Will you permit me to ask you this question? Al-Rida (AS) said: “If `Imran the Sabian is present among the people here, it must be you.” He said: “Yes. It is I.” The Imam (AS) said: “O `Imran! Ask, but I advise you to be fair. Avoid vain talk and nonsense.” `Imran said: “My Master! By Allah, I just want you to prove something which I can adhere to for me. Then I need not seek anything else.” The Imam (AS) said: “Ask whatever you wish to ask.” The crowds moved closer to `Imran and crowded in on him. `Imran the Sabian asked, “let me know of the first thing and what it created.” Al-Rida (AS) replied to him. You asked. Now try to understand. As for the One. He has always been One Being. He has no limits nor does He have transient qualities. He will always remain so. Then, without precedence, He created a different creature with transient qualities and various different limits. He neither places it in anything, not did He limit it by anything. He neither created it like anything, nor did He create other things like it. He then created the creatures in various shapes: pure and impure, different and alike, with various colors, flavors and tastes. He did not create them out of a need for them, nor did He create them to attain a higher rank. He did not sense any increase or decrease in Himself due to this creation. O `Imran! Do you understand this? `Imran said: “By Allah, yes my Master!” The Imam (AS) added, O `Imran! Know that if He had created what He created due to His need for them, then He would have only created things by which He could fulfill His need. In that case, it would have been better for Him to create several times more than what He created, since the more the helpers there were, the more powerful their master would be. O `Imran! In that case, His need would be a never-ending one. The more He would crate, the more newer needs would appear for Him. That is why we say that He did not create the creatures out of need. Through creation He transfers the needs of some of them to others. And He makes some of them nobler than others without any need of the nobler one or without wanting to take any revenge against those whom He had abased. That is how He has created. `Imran asked, “My Master! Was the Being known to Himself by His Own Self?” Al-Rida (AS) said: Knowledge of something is required to distinguish it from other things, and to prove its existence through what is negated about it. However, there was nothing else there to oppose Him to make it necessary to negate. Since there was only Him, there was no need to establish limits. O `Imran Do you understand? `Imran said: “Yes, by Allah, my Master! Then tell me: Through what means did He come to know what He knew. Was it done by conscience or by something else?” Al-Rida (AS) said: “If His Knowledge was acquired through conscience. Can we place any limit to His Conscience, which will end in recognition? `Imran answered, “there is no way out.” The Imam (AS) then asked him, “Then what is that conscience?” `Imran could not provide any answer. Al-Rida (AS) said: Never mind. O `Imran! If I now ask you about that conscience and whether you can recognize it through another conscience, an you answer in the affirmative, have you not then disproved your own statement and claim? O `Imran! Is it not more proper for you to know that the One cannot be described by a conscience? And that the most that can be said about Him is that He has done something, or created something? He is not such that one can conceive any directions or parts for Him as can be imagined for the creatures and their parts. Understand this and base your proper knowledge on it. `Imran asked, “O my Master! Can you let me know what types of limits His creatures have? What are their meanings? And how many varieties of creatures has He created?” The Imam (AS) said: You asked. Now understand. In fact, there are six types of limits for His Creatures. These are the unsubtle; the weighable; the visible; those that have no weight, that is, the spirit; those that are visible but are without any weight, are untouchable, subtle, colorless, and tasteless; and the measurable that are the widths, the forms, width and height. Included among them are deeds and movements which make things, act upon them, change them from one state to another, increase them or reduce them. As for deeds and movements, they pass by since they have no more time than that which is ordained for their need. Whenever a deed is finished and the movement is stopped it ends, but its effects remain just like talking, which ends but its effect remains. `Imran said: “O my Master! Will you let me know about the Creator? If He is One, there is nothing other than Him, and there is nothing with Him, has He not changed (His Essence) by creating the creatures?” Al-Rida (AS) told him, “The Mighty and High does not change through the creation of creatures. The creatures, however, change, due to the changes He has subjected them to.” `Imran asked, “O my Master! By means of what can we recognize Him>” Al-Rida (AS) said: “By means of other than Him.” `Imran asked, “What is other than Him,” Al-Rida (AS) said: “His Will, His Name, His Attribute, and everything else that was created, has emerged and is managed (by Him).” `Imran said: “O my Master! Then what is He?” The Imam (AS) replied, “He is Light. That means that He guided His Creatures from among the inhabitants of the heavens and the earth. You have no rights incumbent upon me more than my professing His Unity to you.” `Imran said: “O my Master! Was He not silent before creating the creatures, and then He spoke?” Al-Rida (AS) said: Silence doe not exist unless there is some utterance before it. An example of this is that it is not said that the lamp is silent and does not utter; not is it said that the lamp shines, implying that it want to do something to us. The light shining from the lamp is not considered to be the act of the lamp. It is not something separate from the lamp. Therefore, when it is illuminating us we say that it was lit for us, by which we found our way around. Through this example you can find what you are after and become enlightened in your affairs. `Imran said: “O my Master! I though that the Ever-Existent changed His State through the act of creation.” Al-Rida (AS) said: O `Imran! You claim that the Ever-Existent Being can change in some way as a result of His Action. O `Imran! Have you ever seen that the changes in fire change it? Have you ever seen heat burn itself? Have you ever seen an eye see itself? `Imran said: “No, I have not. O my Master! Will you let me know whether He is in the creatures or the creatures are in Him?” Al-Rida (AS) said: O `Imran! He is greater than that. He is not in the creatures; not are the creatures in Him. He is Exalted above that. I will teach you what you do not know. There is no power and no strength save Allah. Tell me about the mirror: are you in it or is it in you? O `Imran! If neither one of you are in the other; then, how can you see your reflection in it? `Imran said; “Through the light between me and the mirror.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “Can you see more light in the mirror than what you perceive with your own eyes?” He answered, “Yes.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “Then show it to us!” It was then that the man was too baffled to say a word. The Imam (AS) said: “I do not see the light except that it leads to both of you, the mirror and yourself, without being in either one of you. There are many more examples which the ignorant simply cannot comprehend. Allah is the highest such example.” Then the Imam (AS) turned to al-Ma`mun and told him, “It is time to pray.” `Imran said: “O my Master! Do not interrupt my questions since I am feeling inclined towards you in my heart.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “We will pray and come back.” Then the Imam (AS) stood up. Al-Ma`mun got up as well. Al-Rida (AS) prayed inside and the people prayed outside, led by Muhammad ibn Ja`far. Then the Imam (AS) came out, returned to the meeting called out to `Imran, and said: “O `Imran! Ask your questions.” `Imran said: “O my Master! Will you let me know whether the Unity of Allah, the Mighty and High, is perceived through reality or through description?” Al-Rida (AS) said: Certainly, Allah is the Only Initiator and the first Ever-Being. He has always been One without anything to accompany Him. He is the Peerless, and there is no second with Him. He is neither definite nor indefinite. He is neither decisive nor allegorical. He is neither mentioned nor forgotten. No name can describe Him. Time cannot measure His beginning. And time cannot measure His End. He has not been standing upon anything else, nor will He be standing upon anything. There is nothing which supports Him. There is nothing on which He leans. He has all these attributes before creating anything, when there was nothing but Him. Whatever you attribute to Him will be originated attributes which are the only means for understanding Him, which anyone possessing understanding can comprehend. Know that innovation, will, and intent are different words that express the same meaning. His foremost innovation, intent and will were the letters which He established as the origin of everything, the evidence for all perceived things, and the separator for all vague things. Everything was separated by these letters; thing such as the names for right and wrong, action and object, meaning and meaningless. All affairs were run based on them. He did not establish any limited meaning for them other than what they were themselves when He originated the letters. He did not establish for them any existence other than themselves since they were originated via innovation. Light is Allah’s first action. He is the Light of the heavens and the earth. It was through that action that the letters became object. They are the letters upon which speech is based. Expressions are all from Allah, the Mighty and High, who taught them to His Creatures. There are thirty-three letters. Twenty-eight of them are the letters on which the Arabic language is based. Twenty-two of Twenty-eight letters show the letters of the Assyrian and Hebrew languages. Five of them were separated, and are in the rest of the languages of non-Arabs in the regions. These are the five letters which were separated from the twenty-eight letters. Therefore, there are thirty-three letters. It is not permissible to mention more about them than what we have mentioned regarding these fie letters which were separated. He then established the letters after counting them and numbering them as His own action, like the Word of the Mighty and High: `Be,’ and it is. Here `be’ refers to His Creation, and `what is created’ refers to the creature. Thus, the first creation by Allah, the Mighty and High, is innovation which has neither weight nor any movement. It is neither heard nor does it have color or touch. And the second thing that was created are the letters which have neither weight nor color. They are neither heard nor described. They are not visible. The third creature includes all the various kinds of things which are perceptible, touchable, tasteable, and visible. Allah, the Blessed and Exalted, existed before innovation as there has been nothing before the Mighty and High, and nothing with him. Innovation was created before the letters were created, and the letters do not indicate anything other than themselves. Al-Ma`mun asked, “How come they do not indicate anything other than themselves?” Al-Rida (AS) said: “Verily, Allah, the Blessed and Exalted, never combines any of them together unless to mean something, When He combines several letters together, say four, five or six or more, He uses them to originate a new meaning which did not exist before.” `Imran asked, “How can we understand them?” Al-Rida (AS) said: This is how it can be understood. When you only want to refer to the letters and not anything else, you mention them one by one and say, a b c d … to the end. Here you find no meaning in them other than themselves. But when you put several letters together y construct names and attributes for a meaning which you have in mind. They will not demonstrate the meaning for which they were intended. Did you understand this? `Imran said: “Yes.” Al-Rida (AS) said: Know that an attribute cannot be without what it describes. Also, a name cannot be without a meaning. A limit cannot be without the limited. All attributes and names indicate perfection and existence. They do not indicate encompassment, as the limits do. Limits make squares, make triangles, and make hexagons. Verily, the recognition of Allah, the Mighty and High, is perceived by attributes and names, not by limits such as length, width, smallness, largeness, color, weight, and the like. No such limits are applicable to Allah, the High and the All-Holy, so that His creatures could recognize Him by recognizing themselves. This is certain as I said: but the attributes of Allah, the Mighty and High, prove Him. He can be understood through His Names. He can be reasoned upon by referring to His creatures. A true seeker doe not need to see Him with his own eyes, hear Him with his own ears, touch Him with his own hands, or encompass Him with his own heart. Were it not the case that His attributes proved Him, Exalted is His Praise, and His Names denoted Him, it was not possible for the taught knowledge of the creatures to perceive Him. Then the creatures would have worshipped His Names and Attributes instead of His meaning. Were it any different, the only worshipped one would have been other than Allah, the Exalted, since his Attributes and Names are other than Him. Did you understand?” `Imran said: “Yes, my Master, Please tell me more.” Al-Rida (AS) said: Beware of the saying of the ignorant ones, those whose hearts are blind, and who are in loss. They are those who claim that Allah, the Mighty and High and the All-Holy, is present in the hereafter for the Reckoning concerning rewards and punishments, but He is not present in this world for the acts of obedience and hope.’ If it were that Allah, the Mighty and High’s, presence was a source of His being defective in this world. He would not be present in the Hereafter either. However, these people have gone astray and have become blind and deaf towards the truth regarding what they do not know. That is the Word of the Mighty and High: But whosoever is blind in this (world), he shall also be blind in the Hereafter, and more erring from the way, i.e. blindness from existing realities. Intellectuals know that reasoning about what exists in the Hereafter is only possible through what exists in this world. Whoever tries to adopt knowledge of that world based upon his own personal views, and seek its existence, or tries to perceive it through his own soul and not through anything else would only get more distant from the facts about that world. That is because Allah, the Mighty and High, has given the knowledge of that world to a special group of people who think, know, and understand. `Imran asked, “O My Master, please inform me: Is innovation a created being or not?” Imam al-Rida (AS) answered, It is still creation which cannot be perceived through stillness. It is a created being since it has emerged. And it is Allah who made it emerged. Thus, it has become a creature. In other words, there only exist Allah, the Mighty and High, and His Creatures. There exists no third thing in between, and there is no third thing other than them. Whatever Allah, the Mighty and High, creates dos not disobey from being His Creature. What is crated is ether still, moving, different, harmonious, known, or ambiguous. Whatever is bounded is the creature of Allah, the Mighty and High. Moreover, know that all the things which the senses find for you are meanings perceived by the senses, and every sense demonstrates what Allah, the Mighty and High, has placed in its perception, and the heart understands all of that. Know that the One who is Ever-Standing without any ordination or bounds created creatures ordained by bounds and ordination. What He created were two creatures: the ordination and the ordained. Neither one had any color, taste or weight. He established one as the means of perceived the other and made them such that they could be perceived on their own. He did not create anything which could stand alone relying only on itself, so as to provide a means for arguing about and proving His Existence. Thus, Allah, the Blessed and Exalted, is Peerless and One. There is no second to support Him in order to enable Him to stand, or to assist Him or protect Him. However, the creatures support one another through the permission and will of Allah. People have differences of opinion over this subject to the extent that they have gone astray, become perplexed, and seek salvation from darkness by means of darkness through describing Allah using their own qualities. In this way, they have strayed far from the truth. Had they described Allah, the Mighty and High, using His Attributes, and described the creatures with the qualities of the creatures, they would have spoken through understanding and certitude and would not have come up with so many differences of opinion over Him. Since they sought what would perplex them, they entrapped themselves and became confused. Allah guides whomsoever He wills to the Straight Path. `Imran said: “O my Master! I bear witness that He is just as you have described. However, I still have one more question to ask.” The Imam (AS) said: “Ask whatever you wish to ask.” `Imran said: “I want to ask you what the All-Wise is contained in. Has anything encompassed Him? Does He change from one state to another? Is He in need of anything?” Al-Rida (AS) said: O `Imran! I will tell you, so understand. The one whom you question is the most ambiguous issue which the creatures face. As for those who are deficient in understanding, they do not recognize Him. As for those who are just and can reason, they are not incapable of understanding Him. First of all, if He had created the creatures due to need, then it would be proper to say that He changes His location to the location of what He creates because of His need for them. However, the Mighty and High, has not created anything out of need. He is always stable, neither in something, nor on something. However, it is the creatures which hold each other, enter into one another, and leave one another. Allah, the Mighty and High and the All-Holy, holds all of that by his Might. He does not enter anything and does not leave anything. Its preservation does not tire Him, nor is He incapable of holding it. None of the creatures know how that is, except for Allah, the Mighty and high, and His Messengers, the people who know His Secrets, those who run the affairs, and His Guardians who carry out His laws. In fact, His command is like the twinkling of an eye, or even closer that that. If He wills a thing, He only says to it `Be,’ and it is, according to His Will and Intent. Nothing that he has created is closer to Him than any other thing, nor is He father away from anything than another. O `Imran Have you understood? `Imran said: “Yes, my Master. I have understood. I bear witness that Allah is as you described Him to be and as you have described His Unity. I also bear witness that Muhammad is His Servant, who is appointed to guide and lead to the right religion.” He then faced the direction of Mecca, and fell into prostration. Al-Hasan ibn Muhammad al-Nawfali said: When the other rhetoricians heard what `Imran the Sabian said, who was very hard to defeat in arguments and no one had ever defeated him before in arguments, not of them dared approach al-Rida (AS), and they asked him no more questions. It became nightfall. Then al-Ma`mun and al-Rida stood up, went inside and the people left. I was sitting alone with some of my friends when Muhammad ibn Ja`far called me in. I went to see him. He asked me, “O Nawfali! Did you see what your friend (the Imam) did?” Al-Nawfali replied, “No, by Allah! I did not think that `Ali ibn Musa al-Rida (AS) could plumb such depths. We did not know him in this way. He never spoke about theology in Medina, and theologians never gathered around him.” I further said: “The pilgrims used to come to him and ask him about the lawful and the unlawful and he answered them. Sometimes rhetoricians came to him and argued with him.” Muhammad ibn Ja`far said: “O Abu Muhammad, I fear that this man (al-Ma`mun) will envy him, poison him or inure him. So advise him to refrain from these things.” Al-Nawfali added, “He will not listen to me. This man (al-Ma`mun) only intended to test him to see whether he possesses the knowledge of his forefathers.” He said to me, “Tell him that his uncle does not like him to do such things, and wants him to stop them for different characteristics.” When we returned to Al-Rida’s house, I related to him the message from his uncle. Then the Imam smiled and said: “May Allah protect my uncle. I know him well. Why is he upset? Young man! Go to `Imran the Sabian, and bring him here.” I said: “May I be your ransom! I know where he is. He is with some of the Shi`ite brethren.” The Imam (AS) said: “Do not worry. Get a horse for him to ride on, and bring him here.” I went and brought `Imran. The Imam welcomed him, and asked for a robe of honor which he (AS) put on `Imran. The Imam also gave him a horse, and asked for ten thousand dinars which he (AS) donated to `Imran. `Imran said: “May I be your ransom! You have followed in the footsteps of your grandfather, the Commander of the Faithful (AS).” The Imam (AS) said: “We prefer this.” Then the Imam (AS) ordered dinner, had me sit on his right side, and had `Imran sit on his left side. After eating dinner, the Imam (AS) told `Imran, “Go now and come back in the morning. Then I will give you food from medina.” From then do many people came to `Imran to debate. He used to respond to their arguments and disprove them until they left. Al-Ma`mun granted him ten thousand dirhams. Al-Fadl also gave him some money. Then he appointed him as the director over the alms in (the city of) Balkh where he attained much good.